2023-Mar-05 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

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Expand view Topic review: 2023-Mar-05 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

Re: 2023-Mar-05 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by Rich » Wed Apr 26, 2023 11:20 pm

Today I thought I’d quantify what a full-flap go-around looks like in this vintage (similar to mine) DA40. Executive summary: Given full throttle it’s no big deal. I did two cases: 1) a go around from about flare height. 2) a touch and go where one forgets to retract the flaps to T/O setting. I guarantee these scenarios happen all the time.

Conditions: Weight around 2000 lb. My plane is equipped with Powerflow, with which the accident aircraft may or may not have been equipped. Density altitude of the runway 4,600 ft. The first warm day we’ve had in a long while.

In both cases the plane climbed out at ~700 FPM with full flaps at about 75 KIAS. Retracting to T/O flap setting was a non-event.

I’m thinking I was somewhat lighter than the accident scenario, and the PowerFlow may or may not be a variant. But the DA is there to consider and the full-flap climb was continued for at least an additional 600 ft. altitude.

Re: 2023-Mar-05 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by Rich » Sun Apr 09, 2023 6:18 pm

Boatguy wrote: Sun Apr 09, 2023 4:38 pm Max Trescott does some further analysis and speculation of the cause of the crash in his Aviation News Talk podcast.

https://aviationnewstalk.com/podcast/27 ... s-ga-news/
I take issue with certain statements he made in this podcast and I happen to have first-hand experience that he admits he does not have:
1. He states the "normal" approach speed of a DA40 is 71 KIAS. That would be absurdly fast with a pre-2004 DA40 at the likely weight the plane was carrying at the time of the accident. I'm in the low 60's normally at a load like this. But I do agree they were too fast.
2. Unlike Max, I have first-hand experience in full-flap go-arounds. The most memorable :shock: was at (likely) similar weight at a sea-level airport on a normal-temperature late spring day with a total weight similar to what the accident plane likely had. Even though this was long before Powerflow the plane responded and climbed just fine with full flaps. And we don't even know they were at full flaps.
3. He talks about retracting flaps slowly. In reality, the rate at which the flaps retract is dictated by the flap motor and linkage. It's pretty rare in newer model aircraft to be otherwise. I have flown older models that you could nurse them up slowly. The most you could do in the DA40 is limit the initial retraction to T/O flaps. And there's absolutely no reason to be in a hurry to bring them up further. On a recent flight with full tanks and three adults aboard climbing out from my 3200 ft elevation airport I was seeing 800-1000 FPM with T/O flaps (although I do now have Powerflow).
4. Speculation is risky, as he postulated a possible bounced landing, prop strike and whatnot. The subsequent published preliminary report includes statements that the plane never touched down at all. Also in that report the witnesses stated that the power wasn't noticeably increased.

I have my own theory why power wasn't properly brought up related to a long flying day in a plane neither had much experience in, but will wait until information is available.

Re: 2023-Mar-05 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by Boatguy » Sun Apr 09, 2023 4:38 pm

Max Trescott does some further analysis and speculation of the cause of the crash in his Aviation News Talk podcast.

https://aviationnewstalk.com/podcast/27 ... s-ga-news/

Re: 2023-05-03 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by Rich » Sun Apr 09, 2023 3:23 pm

NTSB has preliminary report out with information from two eye-witnesses that were awaiting their arrival. Go-around attempted with no apparent increase in power.

Re: 2023-05-03 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by Rich » Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:57 pm

There was a small fire, this is apparent in the videos.

As far as the go-around, it looks like it starts with too much speed on approach. If the ground track is to be believed the plane started drifting right and was still well above normal touchdown speed. Perhaps inadvertently carrying some power after the flare. OK, this happens all the time, so you go around.

The big mystery is why that missed approach didn't go well. The flaps appear to be in LDG position but I've gone around several times with the flaps still lowered - including one very close call in '04 :shock: In that case my plane reacted immediately to power application and climbed fine. Weight around 2150 lb. in that instance (804ER weight at the time not known yet). Like this accident plane my situation was essentially sea level and moderate temperature. But dynamic winds from a nearby thunderstorm were involved and were the proximate reason for the miss.

Re: 2023-05-03 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by Soareyes » Thu Mar 09, 2023 11:20 am

Curious why they had to do a go-around. Will Flightradar24 or any other ADS-B website show what other traffic was around that night? Early in my DA40 days I was on short final one night when a plane on the other end of the runway suddenly turned on their landing lights. Startled, I did an immediate low, slow, climbing turn and was horrified to look down and see how slow the airspeed.

Maybe they had the mixture way back. Fatigued and in the dark the pilot forgot to advance it for a go-around? No climb, no speed.

The pictures don’t looked like it burned. Any confirmation of that?

Re: 2023-05-03 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by thommy152 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:31 am

I was in my front yard (in Georgia) Sunday afternoon and saw a DA40 fly overhead. I looked at the plane on Flight Aware just to see where it was headed. Got on the forum the next day to find that the very same aircraft I watched fly overhead crashed that night. Strange feeling.

Re: 2023-05-03 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by Rich » Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:12 pm

ifrpilot wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:07 pm I am waiting to hear more details. I know they picked up the plane in Kentucky. Were they unfamiliar with DA40s? They did a go-around then a tight 180 is what I read. It's only 14 serial numbers away from my plane.
From the ADS-B information they gained neither significant altitude nor groundspeed during that turn. The rate of turn is consistent with a rather modest bank given the groundspeed.

Re: 2023-05-03 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by ifrpilot » Wed Mar 08, 2023 8:07 pm

I am waiting to hear more details. I know they picked up the plane in Kentucky. Were they unfamiliar with DA40s? They did a go-around then a tight 180 is what I read. It's only 14 serial numbers away from my plane.

Re: 2023-05-03 DA40 fatal accident with a post-crash fire

by Rich » Tue Mar 07, 2023 8:17 pm

After examining the ground speed profile I'm thinking that full power was not applied or was otherwise not attained for some reason. I can attest from first-hand experience that at the weight they were flying after burning off a couple of hours of fuel, the DA40 normally can easily climb out of this kind of circumstance - even with full flaps. The residential area to the East should have presented no challenge, but it looks like they felt forced to turn over the waterway to avoid it.

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