Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

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Expand view Topic review: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by pietromarx » Mon Aug 30, 2021 7:21 pm

That's remarkable. 10x what I've heard on DA-40s (though lower hull value) and 4-5x on Cirrii. (All of those have their IFR, but still ...)

Did they give any reasons why they wouldn't bid?

Why didn't they do the insurance marketplaces (Lloyds, etc.)?

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by UTMark » Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:58 pm

This threat has been super insightful to me. I bought our aircraft N100DA from @jb642DA.

I've noticed that people sharing numbers who are insuring a DA-62 are getting charged significantly higher rates than DA-42s. I wonder if it's because there is less data on these planes.

So here's my horror story... I bought my 2018 DA62 at the end of 2020... 12/29/2020. And we needed it insured and ready to go into service, as it was bought through our business. In terms of flight experience... I'm on the opposite end of the experience spectrum from @jb642DA...

I was still a STUDENT pilot, working on my PPL, and without a multi or instrument rating.

I used Travers Aviation as a broker, and tried to get them to be creative with underwritters. Even proposing that I wouldn't fly without a CFI AFTER my ratings... but regardless the BEST quote we got back was from London Aviation Underwriters for $61,817.00/year. This is for a $1.2M hull value...

I should have self-insured.

When I bought the plane I probably had about 50 hours in a SEL plane... (student pilot). Now I've flown an additional 230 hours... almost all in my DA-62 (205 hours)... So I went out and tried to re-bid my insurance part way through the policy, and was told no one would bid mid-policy! I was stunned...

Now from reading this post, I'm going to try AVEMCO and see... not only do I have 205+ hrs time in type... but I also have my PPL/Multi-engine rating, and am working on my Instrument Rating also.

I'm posted this for two reasons:
  • If you think you're policy is bad... it's probably not as bad as mine!
  • If you have any additional thoughts/tips on how to reduce my rates (besides getting my instrument rating because I'm working on it already), pls let me know.
But man do I love flying this DA-62...

Mark


Notes from Previous Posts:

Brokers:
- AOPA
- AVEMCO
- Victoria Neuville: vneuville@air-pros.com Air Pros (Colin)
- Norcom: Sue Bonin at 201-906-0641 (cptndavid)
- Travers Insurance: Lisa Hitti, 314-963-9080
- Ryan Konrath at Wings Insurance, rkonrath@wingsinsurance.com Direct: 952.641.3152 Mobile: 651.253.3844 (MackAttack)
- True Course Aviation in Camarillo, CA (airbrett_)
- Avquest (BoatGuy)
- Eastern Aviation Insurance/Aerovon (caseyayers)


Underwriters:
- London Aviators
- QBE
- Old Republic Aerospace
- Assured Partners
- AVEMCO

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by Rich » Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:01 am

My AVEMCO insurance bumped up last year by about 27%, but this year's premium stayed the same. I happened to notice they don't have my DOB, hence they appear to not know my age. Since it's not required info they don't seem to care.

And I'm not about to offer to tell them, lest they suddenly decide to care 8-)

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by Colin » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:54 pm

That would explain my migration away from Avemco after being with them for more than a decade. They must be attempting to reduce their exposure in each single loss. $350k is, essentially, only used airplanes. That's fine, but they obviously aren't covering any new Cirrus or Diamond birds.

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by Guest » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:49 pm

I called Avemco today. They didn't want to insure any pilot for hull value more than $350,000. In regards to me, 37hr MEL, +500hr total, +185hr complex, CPL, IR - they declined.

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by CFIDave » Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:29 am

There's no reason to avoid calling Avemco for a quote, since they're outside of the usual collection of brokers and underwriters -- who discourage you from going through more than one broker, since they're all getting quotes from the same group of underwriters.

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by Rich » Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:51 am

CFIDave wrote: Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:14 am
Don wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:35 pm Try Avemco. They go direct so no broker fees are added. Also, as the market price has actually gone up on used replacement Stars, they actually increased my hull value from the previous year without me even asking them to do so, and at the same time, the premium was reduced by several hundred dollars.
Did you compare with insurance through a broker? Every time I've called Avemco to insure Diamonds, they respond with a quote that's nearly TWICE that of other insurers -- and I've heard of similar results from other Diamond owners who've contacted Avemco.
It's not harmful to get a quote from Avemco, right? I've used Avemco for decades. Even with this year's premium increase for hull I pay 0.93% of insured value. There are discounts for no claims the last 3 years and aviation association membership (AOPA, EAA). I've had three claims (two total losses) over those decades and all they wanted for documentation in those claims was that the plane was in annual and the pilot had current flight review/medical. They didn't dig into things like AD history or aircraft modifications, etc. Recently I had to expand coverage declarations to include the condo association where I'm renting the hangar, the county, and the city that owns/operates the airport. It took me 15 minutes to make the call and receive expanded coverage documentation at no increase in premium.

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by CFIDave » Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:14 am

Don wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:35 pm Try Avemco. They go direct so no broker fees are added. Also, as the market price has actually gone up on used replacement Stars, they actually increased my hull value from the previous year without me even asking them to do so, and at the same time, the premium was reduced by several hundred dollars.
Did you compare with insurance through a broker? Every time I've called Avemco to insure Diamonds, they respond with a quote that's nearly TWICE that of other insurers -- and I've heard of similar results from other Diamond owners who've contacted Avemco.

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by Don » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:35 pm

Try Avemco. They go direct so no broker fees are added. Also, as the market price has actually gone up on used replacement Stars, they actually increased my hull value from the previous year without me even asking them to do so, and at the same time, the premium was reduced by several hundred dollars.

Re: Who do you use for insurance? Ours just doubled

by neema » Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:16 pm

Old Republic here. DA42-VI

700k hull, $1m liability, 100k/pax. $5951 premium. Middle aged pilots, lowest time 1600 hours. all ATPs, but I think it'd be the same for commercial/instrument.

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