Black Diamonds Aero

[Rick]

1 - flight testing for FAR23 certification
2 - new MLG struts
3 - some way of increasing net thrust at Vx by 4%

For the latter, I guess a larger diameter prop may be the most effctive answer,

My guesstimate for the above is $ 30-40k

Is that ok?

A larger diameter prop may require new NLG, too, for ground clearance. Not sure. Your estimate does not seem too unreasonable, but I wonder if it is really possible to accomplish all that for that figure?

[Antoine]

Rick:

New prop: (lengthy discussions with MT point towards a 74" three blade, mainly due to noise issues. Other benefit: no need for more clearance).
Cost including spinner and shipping: $ 15K (MT).

New MLG struts (Lance is in touch with Grove aircraft about these) $ 4K (this is a pure guess on my side at this stage, they ask $2K for a RV-8 landing gear - much lighter plane, existing design)

http://www.groveaircraft.com/rv8.html

STC for prop should cost $ 20 K, split over 20 units > $1 K

Flight testing and STC for the new MTOW: $ 200 K. Split over 20 units > $10 K

TOTAL COST PER AIRCRAFT

Assuming 20 sales:
$ 30K cost of design, manufacturing and certification.
Add logistics and financing (we'd need to have a batch of MLGs made and stocked) a small margin for Black Diamonds Aero and installation costs on each plane and we're probably right at $ 35K.
The extra $5 K budget per plane is for unforeseen costs (20 x 5 = $100K),

EXPECTED RESULTS

MTOM increased to 1280 Kg / 2820 lbs. That's 80Kg/176 lbs extra cabin payload.
The landing gear will be 10-15 lbs lighter but we will need to re-invest that and then some at the prop end for W&B. We may even need a metal prop.
Lance and I have not done the math yet, but my guts say so. W&B help anyone?

Intact climb performance despite extra MTOM? It should be close enough that we consider the loss negligible, otherwise the prop is a no go.

In comparison with the 71" MT "Scimitar" 3 blade, it is fair to expect 2-3 knots extra top speed and 3% better fuel economy at same speed. (That's 0.25-0.3 GPH)

How can we fund this? Is there a way to dilute risk and costs over time? I have some creative ideas and Lance and I have a skype call planned on sunday mornning PST.
We'll discuss and come back here. Feel free to PM, as I guess we should not overload the thread with such matters.

[Bret]

I have a complete manufacturing facility here in Lincolnton north Carolina. We have full cmc machines with complete sheet metal and carbon fiber design and layup. I will make room for any r&d and manufacturing needed free of charge. Only the raw materials will need funding.
Thanks
Bret

[Antoine]

I have a complete manufacturing facility here in Lincolnton north Carolina. We have full cmc machines with complete sheet metal and carbon fiber design and layup. I will make room for any r&d and manufacturing needed free of charge. Only the raw materials will need funding.
Thanks
Bret

Hello Bret,

This is great news. Your offer is very generous and it might very well be exactly all we need to get us going. Are you the owner of this company?

I am more than happy to put up the cash $ to cover the costs you mention and it is my strong belief that as soon as we have prototype parts, many of our fellow owners will also join the Black Diamonds initiative and put up money and/or take on responsibility so that we can reasonably expect certification of our work.

Would you please PM me a bit more detail about your R&D capabilities? For example, would you be in a position to:

- do the static and dynamic load design for the landing gear struts
- reverse engineer the parts

Oh and what aircraft do you own/fly?

Kind regards

Antoine

[Bret]

Yes I own the company. We r&d for the professional racing industry and we can do analyze the stress and all structural loads. We also have access to oak ridge national labs in tenn. I can the us government run tests at no cost to us as long as we publish our results. I am already designing new landing gear fairings to reduce drag look better and all at a lower price than what DIamond sells their speed gear for. I have a 2003 da40. We also have complete computer fea, cam, and cad systems. Our facility is 10 minutes from KIPJ airport.

[Antoine]

Bret this is great.

Let's see how we can make progress. Maybe we can skype some time this week.
My skype ID is antoun61

Best

Antoine

[Antoine]

I did some W&B number crunching for the 1280kg/2820 lb MTOM. If we are to make any use of the increased MTOM on XL/XLS we need 20 lb of ballast in the front or a heavier prop/ governor.

It is then possible to load the plane with 40 Gal fuel, two couples and 100 lbs of luggage. Ladies in the back, though...

The CG would then sit at the aft limit of... the non-extended range tank planes' CG envelope.

[Antoine]

Hmmmmm...

The spinner that goes with the MT 3-blade 72" scimitar prop is TOO SMALL

(Not an alignment problem, the same gap exists all around).

Here a pic

spinner_MT.jpg (98.78 KiB) Viewed 3341 times

I checked other planes: the spinner is perfectly aligned with the upper surface of the cowling, and even the DA40 TDI with the old style 3 blade MT prop doesnt show this problem.

Looks like one more reason to redo this cowling...

spinner pa28.jpg (94.16 KiB) Viewed 3341 times

[Bret]

Antoine, we are ready to get started on this project and others. As I see it all parts on aircraft are very over priced due to certification. What my company wants to do is
1)new landing gear
2)new wheel pants and gear fairings
3)new prop and cowlings for better aero
4)new exhaust for more h.p. At a lower price

We have the capability in our facility and I will register my plane as experimental to get these projects done if more people are on board. This can all be done at a reasonable price if all take a interest.

[Kai]

Antoine, we are ready to get started on this project and others. As I see it all parts on aircraft are very over priced due to certification. What my company wants to do is
1)new landing gear
2)new wheel pants and gear fairings
3)new prop and cowlings for better aero
4)new exhaust for more h.p. At a lower price

We have the capability in our facility and I will register my plane as experimental to get these projects done if more people are on board. This can all be done at a reasonable price if all take a interest.

How many knots would you want to wring out with each one of these mods?