Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

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alexanderk
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by alexanderk »

Erik wrote: I am a bit worried about a russian built turbine.
You wish, it's Ukranian. If it was Russian that would be fine. I'm happily flying behind a M-14F now.

But realistically Diamond's focus is following where money is, today it is China and Russia. Let's hope things will turn around for us.
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by Moonshine »

Now, being originally from Ukraine, I do have to voice my opinion for the record. Here it comes:

Pfft. L-39s are doing just fine. http://www.motorsich.com/eng/products/a ... e/ai-25tl/
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by alexanderk »

Moonshine wrote:Now, being originally from Ukraine, I do have to voice my opinion for the record.
Same here, though looks like a somewhat different opinion though. More than half of my family comes from there actually. But I have the benefit of being exposed to both modern day Ukraine and Russia, having spent 50/50 time in both places.

The Ivchenko engine was develop well before the current Motor Sich. It is the legacy of the previous era and country, having little to do with today's Ukraine which I admittedly deeply disappointed with. Heck the L39 itself was much more of an effort than the current Czech company. Look up CAGI...
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by Moonshine »

Nevermind then, quite familiar with both the modern day Russia and Ukraine too.
Previous era.. I don't think any country is capable of the efforts that were common back then.
On the brighter side though, also quite familiar with the marine turbines, props etc. Quite a few things are still being built "over there". Believe it or not, most of the props on the big cruise boats over in this hemisphere are from "Zvezda".
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by alexanderk »

You get the best of both worlds: flying and sailing. Nice setup, gotta love Florida for that :)
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by rwtucker »

How cool is this! I wonder what the chance is that it will make it into production. I would wonder about some of the practical issues, such as parts, etc.

Given recent events, it seems more like Diamond is backing off of their Canadian investments than anything company wide. Does anyone have any good information on their overall solvency?
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by CFIDave »

Diamond is a privately-held company, owned entirely by the Dries family (Christian Dries is the chairman/CEO). So it is difficult to obtain financial information -- however, they are assumed to be quite wealthy.

The good news is that the family has been willing to use their "deep pockets" to keep the company going in recent tough economic times, as well as when the disastrous Thielert engine bankruptcy forced the company to invest 40-50 million Euros to finance Austro Engines (certifying the AE300 turbo diesel for the DA42 NG).

Most of the company's revenues in recent years have come from DA42 MPP (Multi-Purpose Platform) sales to governments, secondarily aircraft to flight schools, and then lastly to individual pilot/owners. A single DA42 MPP is priced at over $1M for just the aircraft, which may then be equipped with special surveillance gear to sell for as much as $4M. :shock:
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by Keith M »

CFIDave wrote:the disastrous Thielert engine bankruptcy forced the company to invest 40-50 million Euros to finance Austro Engines (certifying the AE300 turbo diesel for the DA42 NG).
Actually, Diamond had decided to build their own engine long before the Thielert bankruptcy. They announced its first flight in a DA40-D, soon after I bought mine in 2006, so I asked if they had fallen out with Thielert, but was assured they had not ...

I suspect that a major factor in Thielert's troubles was the replacement by Mercedes of the 1.7L aluminium engine with a 2.0L steel one. To maintain compatibility for their OEM customers, Thielert had to design and manufacture their own aluminium block, which must have been a very costly exercise. Diamond chose to use the same engine, but retain its steel block, with all sorts of knock-on effects due to the 50kg weight increase.
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by Antoine »

This thread has been drifting all over, so maybe my belated comment is useless?

I think it is a great idea to develop a non pressurized single engine turboprop. Whether ist should have 300 HP (as in the Rolls Royce option, my preference) or 450 is open.

If it delivers decent fuel efficiency betwen FL100 and 200, the price delta on Jet fuel vs AVGAS in Europe and the poor availability of AVGAS in certain countries will make it a great alternative: superior economics, superior reliability, superior comfort and the cool factor of turbine makes for a vey attractive package.

I think Diamond are right in avoiding to "simply" clone the SR22.
Going turbine is a great way of beating it, especially if the plane can become a 6 seater.

It should definitely have a retractable landing gear. This is probably worth 15 KTAS or so beyond 200 knots , so the payoff is huge. And the R&D effort is minimal since the DA-52 is a retract...

Final comment: if Diamond or anyone else come up with a new turboprop, could you please do your homework and design the frigging plane's CG envelope to do away with the stupid pinocchio nose? A few ugly square meters of wetted area that have no other use than demonstrating compromised design work... :x

Aircraft that are not designed from a blank sheet of paper are too heavy (bye bye payload) , too slow (bye bye range) and UGLY (bye bye coolness)
Look at the Panthera for a proper design from scratch...
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Re: Diamond Unveils Turboprop Single At Aero

Post by CFIDave »

What I want to know is where they're going to put all the JetA fuel...

One of the reasons Diamond dropped the original 2007-era "SuperStar" DA50 with a Continental avgas engine is that it would have had poor range with the original DA40/42-derived wings containing only 50 gal aluminum tanks located between dual wing spars. The original DA50 fuel tanks would require the economy of a diesel engine.

A turboprop engine is far less fuel efficient than an avgas engine at lower altitudes. IMHO, a turboprop DA50 would need at least 150 gal of fuel capacity to have any range.

To carry more fuel maybe they'll need to add longer wings? (Note that the "proof of concept" DA50 being displayed at AERO has no wings.)
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