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Chris wrote: This makes me wonder how much overweight you were when maxed out with fuel.

I am not sure if it is wise to answer this here.

Chris wrote:In our XL, putting two passengers and >100 gallons of fuel on board would put us more than 150 lbs over the max takeoff weight.

Chris, have in mind that I have fixed pitch prop DA40 which makes it a lot harder to take off with full weight.

150 lbs over max takeoff weight in your case is a piece of cake. Cessna allows up to 30% for ferry flights, Diamond engineers would allow only 10%. Flying with 500 lbs overweight isn't a problem in a DA40. The problem is taking off (and landing, but this is a less probable cause as you want to have most of the fuel burnt when landing). Take off has to be done with extreme caution in order not to stress the frame, landing gear and tires. I have heard of burst tires while taxiing...

Now looking at the DiamondReports I see average cruise speeds of 105-110 kts, so I didn't do too bad in my overloaded FP with needs to stay under 7 g/h.

Chris wrote:While I'm not planning to try to exceed the max specs, I'm interested to hear how badly take-off performance and handling suffered in this configuration. I guess I'm wondering just how much margin is built in to the specs.

A lot. Take off took me around 3000 ft and it doesn't feel very safe to taxi so I taxied very, very slow. Especially curves and little bumps on the taxi ways are scary. Rotation speed was at 65 kts, if I remember well and I kept hovering over the runway to the very end in a short-runway takeoff to gain speed before climbing.

Interestingly we still had climb rates of 500 ft at very hot outside temperatures and eventually managed to climb to FL150.

Chris,
The new DA 40 NG is certified for 1280Kg with a 170 HP engine, so I guess the 180HP Lyco can also handle that weight.
The only visible difference between the two airframes are winglets in place of the Star wing tips.
I don't know wether the landing gear has been strengthened or not.

Kai wrote:Hello Gerhard,

Also, the overweight didn't help at all. And I had a bit of ice pick up sometimes, which takes another 10 kts.

to Thailand http://www.405fp.com/THAITRIP.

I am always wary of picking up ice on the DA40. What was your experience? How much of a problem is it above FL100?

Gerhard

gsontheimer wrote: I am always wary of picking up ice on the DA40. What was your experience? How much of a problem is it above FL100?

Our XL seems to handle small amounts of ice pretty well. We picked up some unexpected trace and light rime on a trip from Boise to Portland at 10,000' and lost about 10 knots. The worst experience we had was picking up some light mixed icing around Puget Sound and lost about 20 kts. ATC got us out of the mess ASAP but if it had kept accumulating it might have become a problem pretty quickly.

If you are fully loaded above 12,000' then you're probably already suffering somewhat from reduced performance. I wouldn't want to stick around to see what would happen if I started picking up more than a trace.

Hi Chris

How do you get 100 gallons on fuel on board?, I have the XLS with the long range tanks, that only hold 50 gallons (189 litres).

I know Kai has the added fuel tanks. We sometimes fly long distances here in Australia, but always can find fuel within range of the 50 gallons.

Regadrs

Robin

Robin wrote:How do you get 100 gallons on fuel on board?, I have the XLS with the long range tanks, that only hold 50 gallons (189 litres).

We "only" have 50 gallon tanks, which is plenty for my flying. I was just playing with my W&B spreadsheet while planning a flight and entered some of the fuel numbers from Kai's trip report to see how much overweight he must have been and was a bit shocked at the numbers which popped out at the bottom.

Some days I even wish I had the 40 gallon tanks so we could take advantage of the better C of G envelope.

Chris wrote:Some days I even wish I had the 40 gallon tanks so we could take advantage of the better C of G envelope.

Chris, why don't you just fill in a bit less if you just want 40 gallons? Also, I have flow with completely messed up C of G and I am not sure if I should say it here, but I never even checked where it is. :o

The DA40 is such a forgiving aircraft and has so much reserves that you can take off and land with intuition and care.

Kai wrote:Chris, why don't you just fill in a bit less if you just want 40 gallons? Also, I have flow with completely messed up C of G and I am not sure if I should say it here, but I never even checked where it is. :o

It's not about how much fuel is in the tanks. Of course I just don't fill it all the way up if I only want 40 gallons in the tanks. It's about staying legal on the C of G, which is more restrictive if your DA40 is equipped with the extended tanks.

I totally agree with you that the DA40 is very forgiving and that it can easily be loaded using a wider-than-legal C of G envelope if you are careful about how you bank and climb, but it's also nice to stay within the legal limits to avoid embarrassing questions from FAA or NTSB officials if you are unlucky enough to have them poking their nose in your business.

Chris wrote: I totally agree with you that the DA40 is very forgiving and that it can easily be loaded using a wider-than-legal C of G envelope if you are careful about how you bank and climb, but it's also nice to stay within the legal limits to avoid embarrassing questions from FAA or NTSB officials if you are unlucky enough to have them poking their nose in your business.

Flying anywhere except for the US, I tend to forget about these "details" our American friends have to watch out for

(Nevertheless, the US is an aviation paradise especially for us Europeans who have to cope with complicated airspaces. I should remember to show you a screenshot of the G1000 when flying over France and you'll be glad to worry only about the FAA or NTSB)

kai this is a very interesting part of the forum I had somehow missed. nice reading thank you.
my friend Beat and I are planning a trip around the mediterranean next may. we are looking for advice and feedback re the following stopovers:

southern italy, rhodos, cyprus, lebanon, malta, tunisia, marocco, spain portugal

Any advice welcome!

And as to CG envelope, be warned: it is not possible to recover from a spin if your cg is only 10 percent aft of the 50 gal limit. that is why diamond reduced the envelope...