Transitioning to DA42 questions

Open for questions of visitors of DAN. Posts of our guests are on moderation queue.

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 1473 times

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by CFIDave »

The Seminole is a "draggier" aircraft than a DA42, so a DA42 may tend to glide along in ground effect better when touching down. To counter this, speed control is your friend. :)

As for tail strikes, IMHO it's more difficult to hit the tail in a DA42 than a DA40 (especially in an Austro-powered DA42 due to more forward weight bias) because the plane stands taller on its gear. Having said that, I once got hit with a 30+ knot wind gust just as I was flaring to land and gently scraped the tail of my DA42 -- the only way I could tell there was a strike was by afterwards discovering a scrape mark on the sacrificial plastic block on the bottom of the ventral fin. But that's very unusual.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
ncrcurious

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by ncrcurious »

Thank you again, Dave.
The the follow up question will be: at what speed do you usually flare?
The bounce occurred when I flared around 72 KIAS.
I use the 1.3 x Vso ....or am I overthinking it?

My short final is typically 85 KIAS.

CFIDave wrote:The Seminole is a "draggier" aircraft than a DA42, so a DA42 may tend to glide along in ground effect better when touching down. To counter this, speed control is your friend. :)

As for tail strikes, IMHO it's more difficult to hit the tail in a DA42 than a DA40 (especially in an Austro-powered DA42 due to more forward weight bias) because the plane stands taller on its gear. Having said that, I once got hit with a 30+ knot wind gust just as I was flaring to land and gently scraped the tail of my DA42 -- the only way I could tell there was a strike was by afterwards discovering a scrape mark on the sacrificial plastic block on the bottom of the ventral fin. But that's very unusual.
User avatar
Colin
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
First Name: Colin
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: N972RD
Airports: KFHR
Has thanked: 319 times
Been thanked: 527 times

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by Colin »

Tommy's comment made me think of General Yeager seeing an AOA in a fighter jet and saying, "If you don't know the angle of attack you have no business being in the plane."

I would like an AOA in my plane.

My BFR was today and we did a landing clinic for part of it. 100kt on downwind, 90 on base, 80 on final. My landings were SO much better. Don't mess with the final speed reduction until you are in ground effect. Worked flawlessly three times.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
jb642DA
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:16 pm
First Name: John
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N2691Y
Airports: KPTK KDTW
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by jb642DA »

Colin - your BFR "landing clinic" reminded me of the "old saying":
"There are few good landings out of bad approaches and few bad landings out of good approaches!"

Has anyone read "The Concise Guide to the Diamond DA42" by John Ewing?
John recommends pattern speeds of 100 downwind / 90 base / 82 (+gust factor) final for a DA42TDI.
From my limited DA42 experience, the "Guide" seems pretty good?!
I should be picking up "my" 2008 DA42 within the next ten days from Jeff at Premier (KFXE).
Thanks.

Ps: I've flown aircraft with AOA and it is a great tool, especially when you have different external "drag" configurations and/or varying flight mass (weight), such as flying a heavy weight landing immediately after takeoff.
User avatar
carym
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:00 pm
First Name: cary
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: N336TS
Airports: KTYQ
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by carym »

Just a note to add about speeds: I fly the ILS at 106 KIAS until the MAP. At this point I add landing flaps and have never had a problem with a good landing in the DA42.
Cary
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
User avatar
dgger
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 217
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:00 pm
First Name: Peter
Aircraft Type: DA62
Aircraft Registration: OEFGM
Airports: EDLN
Has thanked: 21 times
Been thanked: 39 times

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by dgger »

Am I the only one flying by power setting here? At larger airports with rather dense traffic situations I tend to shot my approach as fast as appropriate for the traffic flow to about 3 miles final. That is where I drop the gear and reduce power. Once the airspeed bleeds off, I bring the flaps down and the power back up to about 45-50%, depending. That reliably gives my 85-90 IAS and short final which works just fine at larger airports.
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 1473 times

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by CFIDave »

Peter, you're not the only one who flies DA42s via power settings.

If flying a standard traffic pattern (circuit), I tend to bring power back to 50% on downwind (dropping the gear mid-field), then when abeam the numbers I begin my descent by bringing power back to 35% and often holding that power level all the way (turning base and final) until I cross the runway threshold. Then I reduce power further (sometimes to idle) for the flare and landing. (On a DA42-VI or DA62 with their wide chord propeller blades, quickly bringing the power back to idle is like throwing out a drag chute. :) )

I also use 35% power as a starting point when descending on ILS or LPV 3 degree glideslope/glidepath instrument approaches.

I found that using these % power settings work equally well for DA42 TDI, NG, and -VI models, and also for the DA62. Obviously you may need to adjust power for winds or spacing from other aircraft.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
jb642DA
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 313
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:16 pm
First Name: John
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N2691Y
Airports: KPTK KDTW
Has thanked: 51 times
Been thanked: 143 times

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by jb642DA »

Thanks CFIDave! Ewing's iBook also has recommended power settings - same 50% and 35% numbers. I like to know power settings also - makes life a lot easier! Have you ever read his book? It looks like a decent DA42 MEI reference.

Dgger - Thanks for flying quick"er" at larger airports - I'm around 150 kias, on final, in my "work" plane!
Looking!
1980 414A - N2691Y (sold)
DA62 - N100DA 62.078 (sold)
DA42TDi - N742SA 42.AC112 (sold)
User avatar
Colin
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
First Name: Colin
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: N972RD
Airports: KFHR
Has thanked: 319 times
Been thanked: 527 times

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by Colin »

I am going to have to try Dave's power percentage method. And I now realize that although I had read it (thoroughly, early, and with commentary), I did not keep the numbers that Ewing uses in my head. But the truth is I have *always* landed too fast. Even in the DA40, I would scream down final at 110kts, and then pull the power, dump all the energy, and put the wheels on the thousand foot markers at 47kts. I really like air moving over the control surfaces. That makes me feel like I have *authority* over the airplane.

It is clear that I need to learn more finesse, though. The landings yesterday all had 1,200 foot rollouts. Or, rather, I was nearly stopped and able to make the turn before the 1,500 foot marker. That's going to be a lot better for KFHR and (once they shorten the runway) KSMO. Having a mile long runway is not good for learning any short field technique.
Attachments
thanks.png
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
User avatar
dselder1962
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 91
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 1:23 am
First Name: David
Aircraft Type: DA42-VI
Aircraft Registration: VHYDZ
Airports: YMMB
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 36 times

Re: Transitioning to DA42 questions

Post by dselder1962 »

John
Thanks for the recommendation about John Ewing’s book: what a great find! I have been studying the Diamond handouts, the AFM and everything else I can lay my hands on, and I found it really helpful. The study cards ability is useful to make sure I know what I think I know...
Cheers
David
David
Based in Moorabbin, Australia. 8-)
Past Cirrus 20
Past Cirrus 22T
Present Diamond 42-VI
Post Reply