Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

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TimS
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by TimS »

You guys are way over thinking it.
A long time ago I heard a phrase which summed it up. No one ever gets fired for picking IBM.
Eventually this was changed to Microsoft, or Oracle or Cisco...

Same thing applies to Piper, Cessna and Cirrus. If there is any hickup and you picked Diamond, you a** is toast.
Further Diamond has been pushing these new fangled engines. That means retraining mechanics, and no way is that cheap or fast. Further, you know there will be multiple AOG issues over time which will ground the plane...

It has taken Cirrus twenty years and built a large open market recognition to really be considered in fleet sales for training aircraft. Diamond has not come close to twenty years of good reputation in the open market; no one unless there is some technical requirement forcing Diamond (or they just love the company) would ever consider Diamond.

Tim
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by Star57 »

Tim, I owned a DA40 for 5 years, finest aircraft in its class, the DA42 I have not flown, have a client that loves his he has the CD135 2.0 engines.
The problem with Diamond has always been the arrogance of the founder and the lack of support for the products that he manufactured,
Those engines come from the factory for about 3k euros, by the time they were reengineered by thillert it had increased the price to 25K euros, they wanted to pay for all the engineiring in the first 2000 engines.
Anyway the story is way more complicated, but greed and dishonesty killed Thillert, now Austro needs to go and raid the Daimler warehouse and bring the OM654 block, 36 Kg lighter, more efficient in fuel consumption, 1995 cc, 195HP in the E Class only available in Europe.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercede ... 654_engine
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TimS
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by TimS »

Star57,

I have about an hour or two in a DA-40 and maybe two or three in a DA-42. I would love for the AE300 to change from the iron block to the aluminum; before I buy my DA-42 (used, likely going to look for a run out).
Anyway, my point was the Thielert debacle was just icing on the cake. For fleet purchases you either need to build the reputation or give such a price brake that it overcomes the lack of a reputation. Diamond has done neither.

Tim
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by carym »

TimS wrote:Star57,
I would love for the AE300 to change from the iron block to the aluminum; before I buy my DA-42 (used, likely going to look for a run out).
Tim
I doubt that the AE300 will change from iron to aluminum as one of the arguments for the iron vs aluminum block is that the iron block engine can be overhauled while the aluminum engine must be replaced and replacing is much more expensive than overhaul. If you are truly waiting for this change to occur then I suspect you may never buy a DA-42.
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by gordsh »

Tim, what aircraft do you currently fly?
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by Star57 »

If the previous owner simply had focused on GA instead of spending his resources on ventures like Helicopters, Drones, Tucano look alike and every other tangent that he got himself into, including the Diamond jet.
I suspect that he was born into money and possibly suffered from ADHD or Bipolar disorder of some kind, that would explain why he made such stupid comments about the North American GA market, failed to realize the requirements that US and Canada have for flying and operating a Jet.

Disclaimer: I am not professionally trained to diagnose any mental disorder, but have met some many idiots over the past 50 years that I see them coming a mile away, based on my experience with Diamond I decided to sell mine.
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by TimS »

gordsh wrote:Tim, what aircraft do you currently fly?
Rent a Cirrus SR20. I previously owned a SR20 (which I got my PPL and IR in) and an Aerostar 700.
Pretty much settled with the wife we will go the DA-42 route.
carym wrote: I doubt that the AE300 will change from iron to aluminum as one of the arguments for the iron vs aluminum block is that the iron block engine can be overhauled while the aluminum engine must be replaced and replacing is much more expensive than overhaul. If you are truly waiting for this change to occur then I suspect you may never buy a DA-42.
Oh, I am not going to delay hoping for the change. I just wish it occurs first!
I cannot find anywhere in the regs which defines how a company selects TBO/TBR. From what I can dig out, it really comes down to legal liability. TBR in theory places longer term limits on liability by forcing the engines to be replaced.
So the selection of metal aluminum versus iron likely has more to do with lawyers then engineering.

Tim
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by jb642DA »

Do you have to "replace" the engines at TBR??

I think if you are renting the plane out ie: flight school use, etc the answer is - YES.
If you are "just flying it yourself", I think TBR is a recommendation...They do not have to be replaced at TBR.

Do I have this right?
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by TimS »

jb642DA wrote:Do you have to "replace" the engines at TBR??

I think if you are renting the plane out ie: flight school use, etc the answer is - YES.
If you are "just flying it yourself", I think TBR is a recommendation...They do not have to be replaced at TBR.

Do I have this right?
I did not look into flight/school/commercial aspects. And what I recall from leasing back my Cirrus a long time ago I do not have enough confidence in to repeat :D

For part 91, TBR is mostly a recommendation with the exception of the TDI 1.7 engines. In that case, you cannot go past the TBR. I forget exactly why, but it is a hard number and the FAA supposedly has come down hard on owners who "intentionally" went over. Further, Continental will not sell you parts passed the TBR on the 1.7L engines.

For the two liter engines; I have not seen it but have read of multiple going past TBR. Continental requires you sign a hold harmless letter and then they are willing to sell you parts.

Tim
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Re: Training market: Diamond or Cirrus?

Post by jb642DA »

Thanks Tim

(PM sent also)
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