DA40NG

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Rich
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Re: DA40NG

Post by Rich »

Lance Murray wrote:I might believe the PF adds a couple hp but 25? Does your increased fuel flow and higher CHT support this?
Measured improvements in ROC and cruise speed both support my assertion. This is also consistent with the 15% claimed by PF. I’m in the somewhat rare position of flying the same plane on back-to-back days with the different systems.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Don
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Re: DA40NG

Post by Don »

When the power flow first came out on the XL models, DAC stated the additional HP was 23.
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Rich
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Re: DA40NG

Post by Rich »

Don wrote:When the power flow first came out on the XL models, DAC stated the additional HP was 23.
I wouldn’t argue with this. It’s close enough to my experience, given limits to my ability to experiment. What’s interesting is the apparent improvement in degradation of available cruise power at higher altitudes.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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TimS
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Re: DA40NG

Post by TimS »

To change the POH, and then the website to reflect the numbers requires submission and data to back the claim with EASA and FAA; this often requires some amount of retesting. This is not cheap, especially when you sell more of the NG model planes to begin with. Multiple airplane manufacturers have upgraded engines in some way, and never touch the POH; because of the cost. With such a low volume, I would expect Diamond to not bother.

Tim
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Rich
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Re: DA40NG

Post by Rich »

The -180 manual has been revised in various areas over the years to cover changes induced by increases to MTOW/MLW and auxiliary fuel tanks. And some other tweaks, like somewhere along the line deciding to allow operations down to -40 degrees. :)

Not including the changes induced by the increased power allows us to boast of beating book numbers 8-)

Back to diesel issues, my opinion is that we need a new generation of engines of this type specifically designed for light aircraft. They need to be closer in weight to the Otto-cycle engines they replace, operate properly with normal propeller RPMs and allow the use of a wider range of propellers. A gearbox and other mechanicals are OK if they don't compromise the weight.

Perusing the NG manual yields some interesting pearls. For example apparently Jet-A needs some special stuff it doesn't always have in it. Microbe infestation and ice seem to be things to perhaps require additives to guard against. And there is a minimum fuel temperature in the NG of -25 C (-13 F). That's a pretty easy temperature to come by. I also notice that ROC does drop off a bit as one climbs at constant airspeed, according to the charts.

One last tidbit to consider: 8.3 GPH of Jet-A is 55.6 Lb/Hr, 10 GPH of 100LL is about 60 Lb/Hr. In these terms not a whole lot different. I have seen Jet-A as much as $2.00/gal less than 100 LL. At my current home airport it is just over $1.00/gal less and nearby KRDM and KBDN it is $.50 less. But at some airports it actually can cost significantly more than 100LL (current prices at KGEG e.g.).
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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TimS
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Re: DA40NG

Post by TimS »

Rich,

Sure, they have made revisions. MTOW, MLW, fuel tank size... many of these do not require re-certification of performance numbers. I could have been a little more clear.

Anyway, having talked to the Diamond factory in Canada, a few Diamond channel partners, and having an outside perspective. I think Diamond is trying to balance going into two alternate directions for GA planes. Which has the potential to upset significant parts of the industry.

First is like Boeing and Airbus, they sell an airframe and you pick which engine you want on it. GE, Rolls, PWC... Look at how quickly Diamond added the Lycoming version of the DA-42; and now how many engine choices do you have on the DA-50? Three?
Second is that the power plant needs to come as much as possible from the auto industry and be a commodity. You adjust the plane to the engine, instead of the other way around.

You can see how Cirrus constantly improves the planes, this is taken straight from the auto industry. Therefore each model does not have to be perfect, it just has to get better.

All three views are going to be needed to help GA survive.

Tim
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Re: DA40NG

Post by H60 pilot »

TimS wrote:To change the POH, and then the website to reflect the numbers requires submission and data to back the claim with EASA and FAA; this often requires some amount of retesting . . .
Precisely what I find purposefully misleading, because Diamond used to advertise 150 kts @ 10 gph with the introduction of the XLS. Furthermore, in addition to omitting this claim and back peddling to performance numbers prior to 2008, Diamond coincidentally chose not to update the POH on account of increased power, but did so nonetheless for increased weight, as it was sure to worsen performance parameters.

I'm interested to know what the percentages of Lycoming and Austro powered DA40s are? I know Diamond has a global audience for these aircraft, but the FAA registry indicates the newest 40NG is a 2016 model, and I know Diamond has sold a couple 40s since then.
Boatguy54

Re: DA40NG

Post by Boatguy54 »

I'm not trying ignite a debate, I'd like to hear the real world experiences of NG owners.

Thank you.
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Re: DA40NG

Post by H60 pilot »

I found this article from Britain's "Pilot" magazine helpful some years ago when I became interested in the NG. Incase you haven't read it already; http://www.pilotweb.aero/features/fligh ... -1-4110376
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Re: DA40NG

Post by Tommy »

Compared to the IO 360, the NG is a dog. However, if fuel consumption is paramount and you can give up a lot of useful load, the NG is your bird.
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