Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

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NDCDA62
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Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

Post by NDCDA62 »

An interesting development announced yesterday.

Nigel

https://ipadpilotnews.com/2019/03/boein ... omes-next/
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Re: Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

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Re: Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

Post by Rich »

ScottSutton wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:33 am Here's a related link:

https://seattleavionics.wordpress.com/2 ... oreflight/
OMG the sky is falling. "Thoughts" supplied by a Foreflight competitor. And I find fault with several of his statements.

Me: meh
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Re: Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

Post by TwinStarScott »

And I find fault with several of his statements
So what's the takeaway from today's news?  In my opinion, I would expect the past to be prologue.  I would expect a slower pace of innovation, higher prices, and focus on commercial aviation. Steve Podradchik
What specifically do you find "fault" with Rich?

As someone that came very close to switching from Garmin Pilot to Foreflight recently, the words highlighted above must hold some merit - otherwise why would Boeing have made this purchase?

One thing is for sure, it will be fascinating to see how the buyout of Foreflight plays out in the months and years to come. And as someone who lives in the land of both Boeing and Seattle Avionics, I have mixed feelings about this recent announcement.


PS - the feature I'm currently most looking forward to being released by either Garmin or Foreflight is:

from the app's website and using a desktop/laptop computer - be able to perform a W&B calculation, set up a flight plan, get a Wx Briefing & file. And then have the ability to transfer all of this data to an iPad. Foreflight says they are working on this and with Garmin's recent acquisition of Fltplan.com it appears they too are also headed in this direction.
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Re: Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

Post by NDCDA62 »

I recommend also taking out a free trial using SkyDemon which I currently subscribe to. There are some really great features. I plan my flight on my desktop and with all data saved to the cloud, transfer to my iPad and iPhone is painless.
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Re: Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

Post by Rich »

ScottSutton wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:33 am
And I find fault with several of his statements
So what's the takeaway from today's news?  In my opinion, I would expect the past to be prologue.  I would expect a slower pace of innovation, higher prices, and focus on commercial aviation. Steve Podradchik
What specifically do you find "fault" with Rich?

As someone that came very close to switching from Garmin Pilot to Foreflight recently, the words highlighted above must hold some merit - otherwise why would Boeing have made this purchase?
He's stating, without proof, that prices will rise and innovation will slow. I have no experience with Jeppesen's flight bag, but I have been using their nav database in my GNS units for some 17 years, now. I believe Jeppesen was owned by Boeing for this entire period.

- The price for my WAAS dual-database hasn't changed in years.
- When WAAS became available in the GNS units, the necessary Jepp infrastructure was there on day 1.
- The download app (JDM) used to require Windows computers. They came to support Mac OS directly some years back, eliminating my only need for a Windows instance on my Macbook.
- They update JDM periodically. Admittedly there isn't much to do, but they have, over time, made it quicker and easier to use.
- Recently they teamed with Bad Elf for a new device that allows you use a smartphone for loading databases. This works with any of the data cards, whether the Garmin proprietary or SD. No wires required.
- If you're using Foreflight (a competitor in some sense) and you have a Jepp subscription for, say, your G1000, you can load the Jepp charts into FF so you don't have to deal with different presentation schemes. This is something that doesn't apply to me but was something that came along during this period.

As for Foreflight, yes, they have been adding stuff for more commercial operations, but lots of under-the-radar incremental changes happen more-or-less monthly that are useful for all. You can choose your level of goodies and pay accordingly and switch anytime without penalty. For example they rapidly supported the new weather products made available on ADS-B last year. This did not require any upgrade in the subscription level.

As it happens, I also have had a kind-of inside relationship with Seattle Avionics. My former partner in the DA40 was a principal in the early days of the company. I used their initial EFB offerings, which were based on Windows. I had a Motion Computing LS800 with their stuff on it. I can tell you that Windows Tablet Edition + the MC platform was terminally annoying to use. Fly Q is popular regionally, but it's kind of interesting given that they don't do Canada. When I lived up there I would often be one wide turn away from Canadian airspace. And routinely flew up into coastal BC. FF actually reduced the price for adding Canadian coverage from the initial offering. It's considerably cheaper than buying such paper coverage from Transport Canada.
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Re: Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

Post by TwinStarScott »

per Nigel: I recommend also taking out a free trial using SkyDemon which I currently subscribe to. There are some really great features. I plan my flight on my desktop and with all data saved to the cloud, transfer to my iPad and iPhone is painless

per Rich: He's stating, without proof, that prices will rise and innovation will slow


Nigel: Thanks, I will check out the free trial offer of the app you're suggesting when my subscription to GarminPilot comes closer to expiring in December. Although there is one big drawback from using an app that isn't supported by Garmin, as so many of us here in the States have invested in a portable ADS-B receiver that can only work with either Foreflight or GarminPilot. And with my GDL-52, I place a very high value on XM Wx information it provides.

Ideally, what all of us need is to have the ability to take a smorgasbord approach to all of these EFB apps, by being able to customize the features each of us like the best across a variety of apps - if only. . .

Rich: While I certainly can't speak on behalf of the CEO for Seattle Avionics. One guess is that Steve P. might be basing his pricing statement on the Boeing owned Jepp app (Mobile FlightDeck) - as to my knowledge this app was always more expensive than their competitors.

Granted, there is certainly some local pride among most of my Boeing neighbors over this latest news. Yet, in the long run for GA, is bigger really better for an EFB app? And as the article states: “Will the winners of this Boeing-ForeFlight vs. Garmin-Fltplan.com battle be pilots? Let’s hope so.”

For now and until the dust settles, I'm going to stick with GarminPilot - as I tend to agree with most of the reader comments.
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Re: Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

Post by Rich »

Jeppesen charts were way more expensive than the government charts decades before being acquired by Boeing. I was using them in the ‘70s, I know.

And the question isn’t which product you prefer. It’s whether you suddenly run screaming from FF just because of the acquisition.
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Re: Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

Post by NDCDA62 »

Thanks Scott, you have some very valid points. I also have Garmin and use SkyDemon as my back-up on iPad.

Nigel
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Re: Boeing buys ForeFlight – what comes next?

Post by TwinStarScott »

We have similar back-up plans Nigel! I just happen to use FlyQ as my ace in the hole and good to know I'm not alone in being addicted to more than one EFB app.

In the interest of transparency - years ago I bought a lifetime subscription to FlyQ. And while I don't use it in the cockpit very often now, I still find myself launching the app frequently on the ground. Mostly for quick pre-flight Wx checks using those huge METAR color coded circles on an iPad Pro, as this is something I always look at before diving into an official Wx briefing. Also, Seattle Avionics is very generous with the number of devices allowed per account, which can be very helpful over the long haul - since there is such a tendency to collect more i-devices over time.
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