G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

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tapiac2
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G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

Post by tapiac2 »

Owner of a DA42 since 2006, I have trusted Diamond Aircraft since the purchase. I am happy with the plane, I fly around Europe and take special pleasure flying into small and practical airports with character (Arezzo in Italy or L’Aigle in France, to name 2). Large airports are for commercial use, thanks to which we benefit from ATC and airways, but who can say there is repetitive pleasure flying into them, other than the challenge?
Mixing large and small runways with twin-engine IFR safety is exceptional, that’s why the lightness of Thielert 2.0 liter engines is appealing.

Now, as ILS are rapidly being retired (Lyon Bron was a recent surprise), and many new GNSS approached being published, are Diamond and Garmin doing enough to keep "my/our type of flying" alive?

The issue is the current (mid-2019) DA42 impossibility of upgrading the G1000 to WAAS capabilities.

This June I attended Lyon Air Expo and the Paris Airshow at Le Bourget, where I spoke to Garmin and Diamond representatives. Garmin says there are no more GIA63W units for sale worldwide, period. The clean solution is to make the "legacy" G1000 compatible with the GIA64, successor to GIA63W, which has been done for TBMs and others...

Technically, this requires NXI upward compatibility, here is the story:

The “NXI” is the next generation of Avionics from Garmin. This Suite of Avionics that includes upgraded displays, upgraded audio panels, and a NEW GIA unit called a GIA64. Some versions of the NXI also function with the GIA63W, but crucially NOT with the GIA63 (legacy). So the NXI can be broken down into 2 “parts”:
    1) NXI GDU (display upgrade) – This applies to Aircraft already equipped with a GIA63W,
      2) NXI GDU/GIA (Displays/GDU Upgrade) – This replaces the GIA63 unit with the GIA64, and upgrades the displays.

      As my DA42 is equipped with the legacy GIA63, the only path currently supported by existing Garmin architecture is an upgrade that replaces the GIA63 with a GIA64, and upgrades the displays at the same time (as the NEW NXI displays do not work with the legacy (non-WAAS GIA63).
      There is no current NXi upgrade on the Market for the DA40/42 Aircraft, but I know Garmin and Diamond continue to discuss options on how upgrade could be implemented to support the legacy aircraft (which I estimate at 300). Such an upgrade is a major change to the Aircraft requiring a detailed certification process that will need resources from both Garmin & Diamond.


      So what would St Exupery have written if he had had to replace his first Thielert 1.7 liter engines after 600 hours under a failed warranty? It was my case. And today, what would he say about the modular G1000 that is no longer WAAS upgradable? This modularity and upgradability was a big sale argument in 2004 when I ordered, specially if you remember the G1000-Avidyne battle was not settled then.

      My intent with this Forum subject is to give to the community of 300 DA42 an update on this issue.
      And above all, request from Garmin and Diamond they work together to quickly come up with a reasonably priced solution.


      Because history repeats, this question needs a quick and honest answer.
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      TwinStarScott
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      Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

      Post by TwinStarScott »

      My intent with this Forum subject is to give to the community of 300 DA42 an update on this issue.
      And above all, request from Garmin and Diamond they work together to quickly come up with a reasonably priced solution.

      Because history repeats, this question needs a quick and honest answer.
      Agreed Christian and then some! Have you been following “the outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up” thread?
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      Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

      Post by CFIDave »

      I also suggest we continue this discussion elsewhere in the pre-existing petition sign-up thread.

      But just to clarify using Garmin's NXi terminology that applies to all airframes, not just Diamonds:

      G1000 NXi Phase I (introduced in 2017)
      - Improved 1X50-series PFD and MFD screens with new processors -- dual CPUs that are at least 100X more powerful than those of the 2004-era legacy G1000 1X40-series screens.
      - new GRS 79 AHRS
      - new GDC 72 Air Data Computer
      - other legacy G1000 hardware (e.g., GIA63Ws) remains the same
      Software:
      - With the hardware listed above, software for NXi Phase I (which starts at GDU Version 20.00) includes many new features such as Visual Approaches, wireless FlightStream 510 cards, display of radio frequencies, a vertical profile display, split screens, and an HSI that includes a moving map. However Diamonds don't include some of these new functions in their NXi Phase I software, unlike Cessna/Beech/Piper and Cirrus (which markets NXi as "Perspective Plus").

      Converting legacy G1000s on Austro-engine Diamond aircraft to NXi Phase I would seem to be as simple as replacing the PFD/MFD screens. However, DA62's converted to NXi Phase I may also require additional work to add auxiliary tank fuel gauges now standard (see http://support.diamond-air.at/fileadmin ... pgrade.pdf)

      G1000 NXi Phase II (introduced in late 2018)
      - dual GIA64Ws (replacing the now-obsolete, no longer in production GIA63Ws) for radios, GPS, and navigation
      - a GEA71B (replacing the obsolete GEA71) engine interface
      - an all-new GMA 1360 audio panel with Bluetooth and 3D audio (replacing the 2004-era GMA 1347 audio panel)
      Software:
      - With the Phase II hardware installed, NXI Phase II is still GDU 20.XX, but with newer "point releases" that are NOT backwards-compatible with NXi Phase I hardware. Diamond is now delivering Phase II hardware/software for new DA40NGs and DA42s, and Diamond's Phase II software provides most of the "missing" functionality that was already included with other aircraft makes in their NXi Phase I. So with NXi Phase II hardware/software, Diamond's G1000 NXi has now "caught up" to the other aircraft manufacturers. The exception is new DA62s -- which are still being delivered with Phase I hardware (and still lack GTX345R ADS-B In weather and traffic) while awaiting completion of Phase II testing and certification.

      Converting Phase I NXi to Phase II NXi requires replacing both GIAs, the GEA71B, and the audio panel (for DA40NGs, see
      http://support.diamond-air.at/fileadmin ... ftware.pdf)

      If/when Diamond Canada resumes production of Lycoming DA40 XLT aircraft, those aircraft will also likely be delivered with NXi Phase II hardware/software -- which should create an upgrade path for 2007+ Lycoming DA40 legacy G1000 aircraft with GFC700s.

      Upgrades of existing aircraft to G1000 NXi Phase II (from NXi Phase I or legacy G1000s) could free up some used GIA63Ws to install in legacy G1000 aircraft that are in need of a WAAS upgrade.
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      Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

      Post by ememic99 »

      CFIDave wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:25 pm G1000 NXi Phase I (introduced in 2017)
      G1000 NXi Phase II (introduced in late 2018)
      Nice resume but unfortunately not addressing OP's concerns.

      @tapiac2 please check existing thread on this topic viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6643
      Because history repeats, this question needs a quick and honest answer.
      I've been trying this without success for more than a year.
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      Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

      Post by CFIDave »

      ememic99 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:57 pm
      CFIDave wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:25 pm G1000 NXi Phase I (introduced in 2017)
      G1000 NXi Phase II (introduced in late 2018)
      Nice resume but unfortunately not addressing OP's concerns.
      Please re-read the last sentence I posted above describing a new source of GIA63Ws: Legacy G1000 and NXi Phase I aircraft owners (like me) replacing their GIA63Ws with GIA64Ws will free up GIA63Ws for sale to owners like the OP looking for a WAAS upgrade.
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      Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

      Post by Steve »

      CFIDave wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:36 pm
      ememic99 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:57 pm
      CFIDave wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:25 pm G1000 NXi Phase I (introduced in 2017)
      G1000 NXi Phase II (introduced in late 2018)
      Nice resume but unfortunately not addressing OP's concerns.
      Please re-read the last sentence I posted above describing a new source of GIA63Ws: Legacy G1000 and NXi Phase I aircraft owners (like me) replacing their GIA63Ws with GIA64Ws will free up GIA63Ws for sale to owners like the OP looking for a WAAS upgrade.
      Dave:

      I wouldn't hold out much hope of GIA63Ws becoming available. That would require Garmin taking them in trade, checking, repairing as necessary, and certifying them as airworthy, before selling them to current GIA63 users. I could be wrong, but I just don't see that happening. I'm not faulting Garmin for that (any more than I would fault Bendix/King for not releasing a KNL94W upgrade path for me).

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      Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

      Post by TwinStarScott »

      Steve,

      Didn't Garmin already do something very similar years ago with the GNS 430/530 trade-in program (to the GTN boxes)? If so, would imagine the 63W's wouldn't require more than a fairly quick bench test - assuming the majority of the units were pulled out of relatively new phase I aircraft.

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      Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

      Post by CFIDave »

      Steve wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:33 amI wouldn't hold out much hope of GIA63Ws becoming available. That would require Garmin taking them in trade, checking, repairing as necessary, and certifying them as airworthy, before selling them to current GIA63 users. I could be wrong, but I just don't see that happening.
      I don't see why Garmin would need to be involved. Swapping out a non-WAAS GIA63 for a WAAS GIA63W is something that has been done for many years, and could be performed by any Garmin dealer/tech with access to Garmin's password-protected documentation and G1000 loader software on Garmin's website. It would also be necessary for the Garmin tech to re-patch updated WAAS-compatible G1000 software (e.g., 0321.23 for a Lycoming DA40) if a GTX345R ADS-B In/Out transponder had already been installed, but this is very straightforward.
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      Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

      Post by ememic99 »

      CFIDave wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:51 am
      Steve wrote: Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:33 amI wouldn't hold out much hope of GIA63Ws becoming available. That would require Garmin taking them in trade, checking, repairing as necessary, and certifying them as airworthy, before selling them to current GIA63 users. I could be wrong, but I just don't see that happening.
      I don't see why Garmin would need to be involved. Swapping out a non-WAAS GIA63 for a WAAS GIA63W is something that has been done for many years, and could be performed by any Garmin dealer/tech with access to Garmin's password-protected documentation and G1000 loader software on Garmin's website. It would also be necessary for the Garmin tech to re-patch updated WAAS-compatible G1000 software (e.g., 0321.23 for a Lycoming DA40) if a GTX345R ADS-B In/Out transponder had already been installed, but this is very straightforward.
      First of all, there’s issue of legality and paperwork. While under FAA it might be easy, in EASA-land it’s not. The units have to pass refurbishment procedure which I guess can only be done by Garmin.

      Second, replacing GIA63 probably wouldn’t address issues which owners of legacy G1000 have - the system would remain legacy G1000 without ability to upgrade software and autopilot.

      Third, if (and this is very big if) DAI offers legacy users option to upgrade to any NXi phase, it will probably be possible only in DAI factory facility.

      Fourth, from previous experience with DAI, if DAI offers any upgrade option, it will be at ridiculously high price.

      Fifth, we’re still waiting to see any upgrade proposal from DAI decoupled from engine exchange to AE300.
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      Re: G1000 and GIA63W WAAS Upgrade Issue (mid-2019 update)

      Post by ememic99 »

      CFIDave wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:36 pm
      ememic99 wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 9:57 pm
      CFIDave wrote: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:25 pm G1000 NXi Phase I (introduced in 2017)
      G1000 NXi Phase II (introduced in late 2018)
      Nice resume but unfortunately not addressing OP's concerns.
      Please re-read the last sentence I posted above describing a new source of GIA63Ws: Legacy G1000 and NXi Phase I aircraft owners (like me) replacing their GIA63Ws with GIA64Ws will free up GIA63Ws for sale to owners like the OP looking for a WAAS upgrade.
      Please re-read OP’s post - without any intention to interpret what he wanted to stress, I believe that he pointed out WAAS issue just as one part of the problem. The main problem (which he stressed) is lack of promised modularity. Without any offense but if someone had told you 10 years ago that you had to change the engine (actually two engines) in order to change PFD or AP, you would’ve called him crazy.
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