Instruction and Time in Type
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- Colin
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
- First Name: Colin
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N972RD
- Airports: KFHR
- Has thanked: 319 times
- Been thanked: 527 times
Instruction and Time in Type
Isn't the DA62 technically on the same type certificate as the DA42? When I flew it I was told that it was a 1.5hr transition course from the DA42 I was training in, similar to if I wanted to move to the DA42NG at the time.
When insurance companies ask "How much time do you have in type?" for me isn't that the 600 hours I have flown in my DA42? If you are a CFII and instructing in both, how much difference is there between what you teach in a DA42 and a DA62?
Thanks.
When insurance companies ask "How much time do you have in type?" for me isn't that the 600 hours I have flown in my DA42? If you are a CFII and instructing in both, how much difference is there between what you teach in a DA42 and a DA62?
Thanks.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
- chili4way
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:51 pm
- First Name: Paul
- Aircraft Type: DA40NG
- Aircraft Registration: N718NG
- Airports: KADS
- Has thanked: 1057 times
- Been thanked: 482 times
Re: Instruction and Time in Type
I was surprised to learn that this is true (FAA). A57CE Revision 31, June 29, 2021 covers that DA 42, DA 42 NG, DA 42 M-NG, and DA 62. However, A00012NY Revision 1, June 17, 2021 covers that DA62. source: FAA Type Certificate Data Sheets
Practically speaking, it probably comes down to your insurance underwriter's view of the "type" difference. However, since both are twins and retractable (before considering other similarities), I suspect the biggest claim risk factors are covered.
- Rich
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 4592
- Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
- First Name: Rich
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: N40XE
- Airports: S39 Prineville OR
- Has thanked: 145 times
- Been thanked: 1180 times
Re: Instruction and Time in Type
Insurance declarations don't usually reference "type", instead using the terms "make" and "model". Note that the various models are delineated within the TC.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- CFIDave
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2678
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
- First Name: Dave
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N333GX
- Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
- Has thanked: 231 times
- Been thanked: 1473 times
Re: Instruction and Time in Type
The DA62 originally *USED TO BE* on the same type certificate as the DA42. That actually makes sense because the two models share so many of the same systems, avionics, airfoils, performance, weight and balance arm relationships, handling characteristics, etc. So for a few years, you really could claim DA42 hours as DA62 "time in type" on your insurance pilot history form. But as was noted previously, the DA62 now has its own TC (needed since Diamond moved DA62 development and its TC from Austria to Canada).
From a flight instructional point of view, there are very few differences between DA42 and DA62 aircraft, e.g., use of T/O flaps on a DA62, use of a stick limiter on a DA42. A single one-hour instructional flight is usually sufficient for DA42-->DA62 transition training, especially if coming from a DA42NG or -VI with Austro engines. For that reason, I usually recommend that new DA62 owners who need to obtain a multi-engine rating train in a DA42. It's cheaper, and there are almost zero flight schools that have DA62s available for flight training.
From a flight instructional point of view, there are very few differences between DA42 and DA62 aircraft, e.g., use of T/O flaps on a DA62, use of a stick limiter on a DA42. A single one-hour instructional flight is usually sufficient for DA42-->DA62 transition training, especially if coming from a DA42NG or -VI with Austro engines. For that reason, I usually recommend that new DA62 owners who need to obtain a multi-engine rating train in a DA42. It's cheaper, and there are almost zero flight schools that have DA62s available for flight training.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- Colin
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
- First Name: Colin
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N972RD
- Airports: KFHR
- Has thanked: 319 times
- Been thanked: 527 times
Re: Instruction and Time in Type
Thanks for both of those informative replies.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
- Derek
- 3 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 117
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2012 7:07 am
- First Name: Derek
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: CGPDN
- Airports: CYTZ
- Has thanked: 18 times
- Been thanked: 19 times
Re: Instruction and Time in Type
Colin, let us know if you make the jump to a 62 and how it goes! I’d be interested to hear about pros/cons, cost of ownership of each, etc. Exciting!
- Colin
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
- First Name: Colin
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N972RD
- Airports: KFHR
- Has thanked: 319 times
- Been thanked: 527 times
Re: Instruction and Time in Type
Oh, I think I am a few years from that, and it feels pretty unlikely with the cost of the plane soaring the way it is. We have about $370k invested in the DA42. $1.4m looks like a minimum for the DA62 and that's a big jump. The insurance jumps as well. And I don't think I'd fit on my usual tie-downs.
Ideally I would be in a partnership, since we fly about 125 hours per year, but what we like about the plane is that we can hop FHR to OWD back to SMO and down to CDW and off to LEB. I can't picture the partner that would be happy with the plane disappearing like that weeks at a time from whatever they chose as the base airport.
But I am helping a friend figure it out, so it is all interesting to me.
Ideally I would be in a partnership, since we fly about 125 hours per year, but what we like about the plane is that we can hop FHR to OWD back to SMO and down to CDW and off to LEB. I can't picture the partner that would be happy with the plane disappearing like that weeks at a time from whatever they chose as the base airport.
But I am helping a friend figure it out, so it is all interesting to me.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
- chili4way
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 523
- Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:51 pm
- First Name: Paul
- Aircraft Type: DA40NG
- Aircraft Registration: N718NG
- Airports: KADS
- Has thanked: 1057 times
- Been thanked: 482 times
Re: Instruction and Time in Type
Colin, even if you order a DA62 today, you’d still be (almost) a few years from that.
- pietromarx
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
- First Name: Peter
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: NZZZ
- Airports: KWHP
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 156 times
Re: Instruction and Time in Type
I drove by the Wiener-Neustadt airport the other day (was going to a meeting in Graz) and there were a lot of DA-62s on the taxiway. They all looked like they were for the military or something (painted dark gray).
Perhaps you should join a service and then you'd get to fly one of these things for no cost?
)
Perhaps you should join a service and then you'd get to fly one of these things for no cost?
)
- MackAttack
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 261
- Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:20 pm
- First Name: Joel
- Aircraft Type: DA62
- Aircraft Registration: N251JM
- Airports: KIWS
- Has thanked: 8 times
- Been thanked: 160 times
Re: Instruction and Time in Type
Rumor has it that Diamond has done well selling the DA62MPP to various government and military services because of it’s payload, efficiency, low operating costs and loitering capabilities. So it’s not surprising that these orders are partially responsible for extending the manufacturing wait times…