DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Any DA50 related topics.

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ememic99
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Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by ememic99 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:41 am

Such placard would leave me flying alone all the time.
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krellis
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Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by krellis » Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:17 pm

Boatguy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:09 am
I'm afraid the product itself contributes at best 50% to the overall success of a product. Distribution is a huge factor and Diamond is less than stellar when it comes to the distribution value chain. Product management, product marketing, customer communication, sales training, sales support and after sales customer support are all very weak at Diamond.

Meanwhile Cirrus is a marketing machine which creates a virtuous circle/cycle of happy customers who hire Cirrus certified CFIs, take their planes to the Cirrus service network, fly them to a COPA fly-in to tell each other about their great planes and attract more products, professionals and vendors to the Cirrus eco-system. Success leads to success. This is not something that just happens by itself. It takes a long term investment by shareholders and a focus by senior management.

Cirrus also has a financial advantage because they sell direct, keeping probably half of the margin that currently goes to Diamond distributors (think Apple Store or Tesla). Then they use that savings to invest in better marketing and support.

I do believe the Cirrus piston product line is essentially stale and yet another Perspective (+) feature isn't going to change that. But I also would not assume that Cirrus is not doing anything to evolve the SR22 product line. Cirrus could leap frog the diesel engine benefits with an entry level turbo-prop and change the game entirely the same way the Vision Jet brought down the jet entry point.

I wish Diamond every success, but they need to make a huge and sustained investment in marketing, distribution and customer support if they want to be a major player outside the training market.
No argument with you about Cirrus vs. Diamond. Given the well known lack of support from Diamond, why did you buy a new DA40NG?
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Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by Boatguy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 1:08 am

krellis wrote:
Wed Apr 17, 2019 9:17 pm
No argument with you about Cirrus vs. Diamond. Given the well known lack of support from Diamond, why did you buy a new DA40NG?
Modern aircraft with modern turbo-charged engine that I felt was a safer plane to fly as a new pilot.
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Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by krellis » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:52 am

Understood. Having flown both, I would agree - the handling qualities of the DA40 are far superior. The Cirrus is a better performer though and the support is much better (just look at the petition on the G1000). Hope you have better luck than some of us on support and upgrades.
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Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by Carl » Mon Apr 29, 2019 2:27 am

Although I really want to avoid the dreaded "thread creep", and I am intrigued by the latest incarnation of the Diamond DA 50, I think that the TTX comments are appropriate and something Diamond should certainly keep in mind.

I am very well versed with the TTX, I have just over 3000 hours in the aircraft [including the Columbia 400] and my wife and I currently own and fly three yes three of these airplanes – a 2006 Columbia 400, 2015 TTX, and 2017 TTX. My SR 22 time is quite limited, but it is no stretch of the imagination to note that in my admittedly biased opinion the handling characteristics and build quality of the TTX are far better than the SR 22. I also find the G 2000 with its 14-inch screens and touchscreen controller to be superior to the G1000, including the NXI. And, all this for a fully – optioned aircraft [including flight into known icing protection] which was between 50 and $70,000 less than a similarly equipped SR 22. Even in the last year of production [2017], Cessna sold everyone that they built and reportedly made a profit – which was amazing since their marketing efforts were pathetic.

Still, serous outsold them 921. Why? As others have pointed out it was almost overwhelmingly due to the parachute. Even though the fatal accident rate remains roughly equal between the SR 22 and the Columbia/Cessna [and is significantly worse than the DA 40] there is still a perception of safety that appeals to pilots and non-pilot partners alike.

If Diamond can incorporate BRS and a diesel, they will have a serious competitor. Without BRS it will simply repeat the TTX experience and we all know how well that worked out. Perhaps they may do a little bit better courtesy of the diesel engine, but not very much.
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Re: DA50 base MSRP Guesstimate

Post by TimS » Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:08 pm

Boatguy wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:09 am
I do believe the Cirrus piston product line is essentially stale and yet another Perspective (+) feature isn't going to change that. But I also would not assume that Cirrus is not doing anything to evolve the SR22 product line. Cirrus could leap frog the diesel engine benefits with an entry level turbo-prop and change the game entirely the same way the Vision Jet brought down the jet entry point.
I disagree. The number of small incremental changes really does add up.
e.g. G5 added an access door to the wheel pants for the tire valve. 64/40 split back seats, faster/new avionics...
Or even larger changes, 200lb UL increase and Flap speed increase from 119 to 150.

Basically, each generation has had incremental improvements, with a new release every four/five years. This is what Cessna, Mooney, Piper and the other manufacturers did from the late forties through the 70s. Since then, the model year changes actually have largely become meaningless.

To be fair, Piper seems to be trying now on the PA46 line, and also on the trainers.

Tim
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