AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
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- Wilfried
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AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
My DA42NG flies beautifully and the plane clocked almost 1.500h now. It was time for annual inspection. The shop sent me a quotation for the regular maintenance items plus a list of findings. Two replacements came up that are expensive and I wonder how to deal with it:
1. Timing Chain tension out of tolerance - replacement of timing chain
2. LH/RH Two mass flywheel out of tolerance (result of 600h inspection)
These are quite expensive exchanges, given the fact that both engines have to be replaced after the next 300h (approx. 18 month from now). Does anyone have an idea or comment on this?
1. Timing Chain tension out of tolerance - replacement of timing chain
2. LH/RH Two mass flywheel out of tolerance (result of 600h inspection)
These are quite expensive exchanges, given the fact that both engines have to be replaced after the next 300h (approx. 18 month from now). Does anyone have an idea or comment on this?
42.N020
- CFIDave
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Re: AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
First, you don't have to REPLACE your engines in 300 more hours (at 1800 hours), you can overhaul them. Overhaul (at TBO) is substantially less expensive than replacement, and is one of the big advantages of Austro vs. Thielert/Continental engines that must be replaced (TBR). If your cost of replacing a timing chain and 2-mass flywheel is high enough, you might avoid this additional expense by performing the overhaul "early" at 1500 hours, since flywheel and timing chain replacement are included in an overhaul.
As for engine timing chains: In case you're not aware, Diamond/Austro recently changed their guidance on engine restarts, no longer recommending windmilling restarts in the air -- because it causes excessive wear on timing chains. Austro now states that if windmilling restarts have occurred, that the timing chain must be replaced every 900 hours. See Austro Mandatory Service Bulletin MSB-E4-017/2.
So if you need to practice or demonstrate OEI operation, it is now recommended that you instead use the electric starter for engine restart, carefully ensuring that the prop blades are stationary to avoid damaging the starter or gears.
As for engine timing chains: In case you're not aware, Diamond/Austro recently changed their guidance on engine restarts, no longer recommending windmilling restarts in the air -- because it causes excessive wear on timing chains. Austro now states that if windmilling restarts have occurred, that the timing chain must be replaced every 900 hours. See Austro Mandatory Service Bulletin MSB-E4-017/2.
So if you need to practice or demonstrate OEI operation, it is now recommended that you instead use the electric starter for engine restart, carefully ensuring that the prop blades are stationary to avoid damaging the starter or gears.
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- reinhardj
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Re: AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
A bit off topic, but for clarification: since approx. beginning of 2017 the Thielert/Continental CD135 and CD155 Version 02 have a TBO of 2100h.
See TM TAE 125-0001 Rev. 19 Lifetime 170907
See TM TAE 125-0001 Rev. 19 Lifetime 170907
Reinhard
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- Colin
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Re: AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
And, also, if you are flying Part 91 you don't HAVE replace *or* overhaul, you can continue to fly inspecting on condition (or whatever that phrase is), correct?
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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- Wilfried
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Re: AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
Dear Dave,
TBO is clear - sorry that was unprecise use of language.
The windmilling MSB 04-17 is no factor for me.
I cannot comment on Part91...
I was surprised by a timing chain inspection (900h?) on the Austros that, as if in my case, revealed a tension out of tolerance LH and RH and became now an expensive repair event. I talked to the shop and they (no surprise!) strongly recommended to do it, even though the engine reaches the TBO limit in 300h.
Secondly, there seems to be a 600h inspection of the two-mass flywheel (EMM E4.08.04 REV.27). The finding on my LH engine was that the "flywheel play" is out of tolerance, which causes another expensive repair work.
I think as owners we are used to unpredicted repair events, but it is especially annoying, when these kind of engine repairs occur "shortly" before overhaul. I wanted to share this and wonder, if anyone made the same experience.
TBO is clear - sorry that was unprecise use of language.
The windmilling MSB 04-17 is no factor for me.
I cannot comment on Part91...
I was surprised by a timing chain inspection (900h?) on the Austros that, as if in my case, revealed a tension out of tolerance LH and RH and became now an expensive repair event. I talked to the shop and they (no surprise!) strongly recommended to do it, even though the engine reaches the TBO limit in 300h.
Secondly, there seems to be a 600h inspection of the two-mass flywheel (EMM E4.08.04 REV.27). The finding on my LH engine was that the "flywheel play" is out of tolerance, which causes another expensive repair work.
I think as owners we are used to unpredicted repair events, but it is especially annoying, when these kind of engine repairs occur "shortly" before overhaul. I wanted to share this and wonder, if anyone made the same experience.
42.N020
- Karl
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Re: AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
I would be asking why is a 600hr inspection being carried out at all?
Too late now I know but they should have been conducted at 600 and 1200, the next event is OH at 1800.
Are they carrying out an inspection that is not required or was the 1200 missed?
Too late now I know but they should have been conducted at 600 and 1200, the next event is OH at 1800.
Are they carrying out an inspection that is not required or was the 1200 missed?
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Re: AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
My understanding is that for N-registered aircraft operating under US Part 91, TBO/TBR engine hours are recommendations only -- that you can continue operating beyond TBO/TBR so long as your engines continue to pass annual inspections (and for flight school aircraft, 100 hour inspections). In general, as long as your engines aren't making metal and compressions are good, you can legally continue to operate them "on condition."Colin wrote:And, also, if you are flying Part 91 you don't HAVE replace *or* overhaul, you can continue to fly inspecting on condition (or whatever that phrase is), correct?
There are important exceptions to this: Any Airworthiness Directives (ADs) for your engines that may exist must be followed. Also you need to ensure that your airframe or engine manufacturers have not issued any FAA-reviewed/approved "Instructions for Continued Airworthiness" (ICA), typically listed in Chapter 4 of your Aircraft Maintenance Manual (AMM) or similar document. In contrast, Chapter 5 scheduled maintenance items, or those that the manufacturer labels as "Mandatory" can legally be ignored. (Whether doing so is safe or economically advisable is a separate issue.)
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- aweingram
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Re: AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
THat's an interesting subject on the diesels.
It depends on how they are certified. With the IO360s overhauls are absolutely optional for the part 91 operator and in most cases probably a mistake, unless there is a clear reason to do it.
The Diesels are life limited which is different I believe, so the option to run them beyond TBR is not there at the moment, and this is going to be a big player on if I move over from the my 40 to a 42....
Andy
It depends on how they are certified. With the IO360s overhauls are absolutely optional for the part 91 operator and in most cases probably a mistake, unless there is a clear reason to do it.
The Diesels are life limited which is different I believe, so the option to run them beyond TBR is not there at the moment, and this is going to be a big player on if I move over from the my 40 to a 42....
Andy
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Re: AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
That's not true for Austro AE300 or AE330 engines, which can be overhauled. I went back and checked all the Diamond and Austro manuals, and found no Airworthiness Limitations/ICAs or ADs that require overhaul at TBO under US Part 91.aweingram wrote:The Diesels are life limited...
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- rwtucker
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Re: AE 300: Timing Chain / Flywheel Replacement
Are AE300 and 330 overhauls flying under Part 91 manditory by engine specifications or by time on certain parts, regardless of condtion?