What comes after a DA40?

The ramblings of our community of aviators.

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
carym
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:00 pm
First Name: cary
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: N336TS
Airports: KTYQ
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by carym »

Hi Antoine,
I am afraid there is no easy answer here. Different FSDO's have ruled differently on panel modifications. I know of one instance where a FSDO grounded a plane because of 2 screws that were put into the panel and the mechanic did not get FSDO approval for this minor modification. I think that the conservative approach here would be to talk to your local FSDO about the proposed changes (but don't tell them that you have already done some of the work). Then you can get in writing their approval for the proposed changes and you will be good to go. I suspect that if you have to do any cutting, sawing, fabricating, etc to the panel they will not be happy.
Cary
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
Antoine
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm
First Name: Antoine
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N121AG
Airports: LSGG
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine »

Hi Cary
Thanks for your quick reply. We have not done any of the work (apart from removing instruments)
I like your idea
Do you know a "friendly FSDO in the US"? None left in Europe.
(or maybe I should ask a DAR?)
User avatar
carym
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:00 pm
First Name: cary
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: N336TS
Airports: KTYQ
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by carym »

Antoine,
I have had experience with three FSDO's here. The Minneapolis FSDO is the one that grounded the plane, I wouldn't recommend using them. When had an engine problem in Phoenix I was contacted by them and, while it wasn't hostile, it certainly wasn't as friendly as I would like. My contacts with the Indianapolis FSDO (where I'm currently located) have all gone well and they were friendly and helpful. The last time was when I asked for a ferry permit to get my plane to a Thielert mechanic because of an ECU error that wouldn't go away. You can try contacting them, but I bet that the local FSDOs in the US would defer to a FSDO in Europe where the plane is located.
Cary
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
Antoine
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm
First Name: Antoine
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N121AG
Airports: LSGG
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine »

Thanks cary. There is no FSDO left in Europe, so I'll give Indianapolis a shot. I am hoping that they might reply positively BEFORE asking me form more detail, and that would give ma a good basis.
Would you mind taking a look at this and giving me your advice? thanks x 1000
Dear FSDO

I am writing as the owner-operator of an N-registered aircraft regarding a glass panel upgrade.
My aircraft is a single engine piston Extra EA400 (ICAO : E400).

I hereby request guidance from your office in order to detemine / confirm that the following work can be done within airworthiness rules. This is a private aircraft, not for commercial use.

Scope of the project

Upgrade to a glass cockpit and WAAS

Detail

The present instrument panel comprises a Bendix King EHSI system, two Garmin GNS navigators and a large number of « steam gauge » instruments to be removed per Garmin and JPI STCs.

The final instrument panel will use the following STC'd components

Garmin GTN 750 navigator with autopilot and radar interface
Garmin GNC255A nav/comm device
JPI EDM 930 primary engine monitor

Questions

1) In order to install the above and reposition the remaining instruments and switches, we need to replace sheet aluminum panels that were drilled for the « old » setup with owner produced parts that conform to the Garmin installation documentation. Switches located between the round instruments will be placed at the periphery of the G500 panel unless rendered inoperative in which case they will be removed.
Can you please confirm this is OK ?

2) The function of the remote display and controller units of the autopilot will be integrated in the STC'ed Garmin G500 system. Removing the inoperative parts in accordance with Garmin instructions, frees up a « premium » location in the panel (central and high).
I would like to shift the existing warning and annunciator clusters, currently located right below these locations « up » to these locations.
The annunciators would remain laterally at the same viewing angle, only a few inches higher, and this would in turn allow a more ergonomic (higher) placement of the G500, consistent with Garmin installation instructions. The general result goes towards better safety through a more « heads-up » view of the clusters, with no lateral shift.
Can you please confirm this is OK ?

3) A similar « opportunity » is available at the bottom of the panel, where the landing gear switch/position LEDs are presently installed on a panel extension, hidden behind the pilot yoke for lack of space in the main panel.
The removal of « round » instruments will free up a higher position at the same lateral station, in unobstructed view of both crew members, I'd like to increase operational safety by shifting up the switch cluster to this more visible location.

4) Upon removal of other obsolete avionics in accordance with Garmin instructions and repositioning of the above mentioned switch clusters, the lower portion of the lower panel, will become empty and lose its sole function which was to carry the removed items.
We need to replace this part by an owner produced part that conforms to the Garmin installation documentation.
Can you please confirm I can draw the part without the extension that has become useless ?
User avatar
carym
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 5:00 pm
First Name: cary
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: N336TS
Airports: KTYQ
Has thanked: 37 times
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by carym »

Antoine,
All you can do is give it a try. I know you are in a "hurry", but you may want to wait to see if anyone else on the board has other suggestions. You may want to add that all this work will be accomplished by FAA certified and current IA's and avionics technicians.
Cary
DA42.AC036 (returned)
S35 (1964 V-tail Bonanza)
Alaska adventure: http://mariashflying.tumblr.com
User avatar
Erik
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 439
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:53 pm
First Name: Erik
Aircraft Type: DA40
Airports:
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Erik »

Beautiful Antoine,

But all I can think is those G500 screens look sad, tiny and expensive compared to the big beautiful ipad!
Antoine
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm
First Name: Antoine
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N121AG
Airports: LSGG
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine »

Sooo. The weather was getting better and I jumped into a train to Colmar (France) where a friend's DA40 XLS was ready after its annual.
We flew to Bonn Hangelar where my beloved Extra 400 is being dismantled beyond what you can imagine.
We were welcomed by the extremely friendly and competent people at Flugzeugwerft Möller - THE Extra 400 experts and had a wonderful time going through every aspect of the project.
We finalized the instrument panel, adding ADS-B in and out through a Garmin GTX 345R. My friend Beat designed a frame for the JPI EDM 930 to be printed on his 3D printer which makes it exactly as wide as the GTN750 and allows it to be mounted in the avionics rack. This is the final design:
Capture d’écran 2016-03-18 à 10.08.43.png
We also took a hard look at water transfer finishing for the instrument panel. Budget allowing, this will look like carbon fiber, with all labels sealed under 2 layers of matte lacquer.
I also gave green light to a complete rebuild of the landing gear (including non destructive testing).
The exterior work is very challenging and I am now looking at a lightweight paint job instead of the (too heavy) carbon-style PVC film job.

In the meantime, Lance and Cindy at Alberta Aero Engines were taking apart the TSIOL-550 C and sending parts all over Canada and the US for overhaul and/or replacement. I expect a better-than-new engine with perfect balancing to be shipped back from Canada by mid April.
The MT prop is finished.
The aircraft's interior has been disassembled to the point of only showing bare carbon fiber and some metal framework to support the seats.

Even the engine mount will be sent out for non-destructive testing and will be powder coated before mounting.

We also looked at the leather interior and I decided to scrap the present design and supplier altogether. He can only do a certain type of stitching that would be suitable for a Lada or H&M underwear. :roll:

Probably going for Jason's Custom Aircraft Interiors (yes the company that did this outstanding DA40).

The bad news is that the budget is severely slipping- but hey we only live once.

Expect this baby to be flying ... in May 2016

The great news is that I now have a rented DA40XLS from my friend Beat who lost his medical. This thing is screaming fast (146 knots on 9 GPH) and has put a huge smile on my face as we flew back home today.
Take-off in marginal IMC (unplanned freezing fog) and popped out of the fog layer just as we were starting to ice-up.

2 hours of glorious sunshine later we landed in Lausanne just after sunset. The whole flight was a blast. I had not flown for three months.
A Piper Malibu landed just after us and taxied to the "VIP stop" just in front of the restaurant. For some reason I had a feeling of vanity. This Malibu looked so small, compared to the E400's mighty T-Tail...

Tomorrow my friend and I are flying to LFEY, "my" island. We'll spend the week-end there biking, eating oysters and working on some totally confidential inventions that will make N121AG the best Extra 400 ever made.

I can't wait to take N121AG to the skies. In the meantime, a very fine DA40 is keeping me very happy.
User avatar
Gasser
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:22 pm
First Name: Jeff
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N415AM
Airports: KADH
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Gasser »

Really like that panel. I bought a real carbon fiber overlay for my Cirrus panel and center console. It really looks nice with carbon around all that glass.
Sounds like your building a really nice bird.
Post pics when you can along the way.
Jeff

PRIVATE PILOT, IFR
2005 DA40 SOLD
2006 SR22, A/C, TKS, AVIDYINE PFD/MFD, IFD 540/440, AXP322 remote ADS-B TRANSPONDER, AMX240 AUDIO PANEL, MLB100 ADS B in.
168 KTAS 9,000' msl @ 13.6 gph LOP. 1005 pound useful load.
Antoine
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm
First Name: Antoine
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N121AG
Airports: LSGG
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine »

Thanks Jeff. Wilco re: pics - we're making tons of them and there will be a dedicated web site! the domain name is extra400.net. I want a lot of publicity for my wonderful suppliers/project partners and my main goal is to make other pilots trust this airplane and take the plunge.
The engineering of the Extra 400 is out of this world. You should see the beauty of the door locking mechanism. Clockwork.
And the flap system! There's absolutely nothing sticking out and yet they are true Fowler flaps with a very sophisticated airfoil shape.
I am in love!
User avatar
Gasser
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 703
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:22 pm
First Name: Jeff
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N415AM
Airports: KADH
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 44 times

Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Gasser »

Awesome. Love your excitement.
Jeff

PRIVATE PILOT, IFR
2005 DA40 SOLD
2006 SR22, A/C, TKS, AVIDYINE PFD/MFD, IFD 540/440, AXP322 remote ADS-B TRANSPONDER, AMX240 AUDIO PANEL, MLB100 ADS B in.
168 KTAS 9,000' msl @ 13.6 gph LOP. 1005 pound useful load.
Post Reply