What comes after a DA40?

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Antoine
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine »

Hi Colin! Nice to see you too.

Well I had twice the privilege of flying with fighter pilots.
Both were flying my humble DA40 with laser accuracy without even explicitly looking inside. They were having a blast by the way!
One of them spotted a traffic a full minute before I could see it with his finger pointed at it. And he was holding altitude and heading as if on AP while doing so... Very impressive...
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Tommy »

Antoine, yes, it is quite ironic, same here regarding the DA40 G1000/GFC700. I fly the Aerostar by hand far more than I ever flew the DA40. Again, not exactly sure why, I just slowly slid into that mode, or, not so slowly I really should say. One of my favorite maneuvers is, when asked by the tower if I can take a short approach because of traffic, I immediately say "affirmative" with a big grin on my face. :D Then, abeam of the numbers, close to the runway at 200' to 500' above pattern altitude (depending on winds) at 18" MAP 130 kts., I drop the gear, go full flaps and immediately dive (circle to land) for the runway, 120 kts. all the way down, 85-90 kts. across the numbers with speed diminishing quickly. What a rush. It gets you on the ground in a hurry. Yes, we fly these planes a little differently. :thumbsup:
Antoine
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine »

Sounds very exciting Tommy.
Now that you say that it reminds me of a recent flight with a friend who was a retired french air force big shot and a strategic bomber pilot before that. So that makes three - not two of them.
He hopped in the Extra for a short VFR flight to Nantes Airport which can get real busy.
Upon arrival we had this same ATC request except we were incoming from the base leg already. We took a shortcut, turned abeam numbers at 500 AGL and 45 degrees off axis, went down like a rock (going down is one of the Extra's favorite maneuvers, and I was aiming for mid-runway to shorten the roll) and then somehow, don't ask me how I did it, I managed the best greaser in my whole pilot life.
The general said something like "very good " and I was blushing like a little boy!
At the end of the day whether its 1, 2 or 50 tons, you end up "wearing" the aircraft and it is the ultimate joy... when man and machine simply merge into a single mind...
Antoine
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine »

Found a nice PIREP on the PA46 Malibu/Mirage on the web site MMIG46.EU. I cut and pasted the content into a table and added my experience in the Extra 400 in the second column.
PA46 vs E400.pdf
(38.09 KiB) Downloaded 137 times
I hope it will help people who think I'm crazy confirm their judgement and maybe understand WHAT drove me crazy :). I am more than ever in love with this aircraft - can't find anything that comes even close in the certified world as this comparison shows.
IMG_5096.JPG
Over Sahara
Capture d’écran 2018-06-14 à 00.13.51.png
More bragging...
Tommy
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Tommy »

Good looking airplane Antoine. ... good looking gs.
Antoine
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine »

Thx Tommy. How are your Aerostars doing btw?
Today was another milestone. I visited Extra - the company in Dinslaken and finally go to meet Walter in person. It saddened me to see that his ride was a (very nice) Piper Cheyenne... I would have expected him to fly a souped up Extra 500... go figure. On the positive side, he is still harvesting record after world championship title even today...

Extra have a couple used E400s for sale and there was this low time pilot there looking at one. We became friendly and I didn't know how to convey to him "don't"... without hurting his feelings or upsetting the Extra sales guy...
I then did a VFR hop to Düsseldorf which is really around the corner. That again is the beauty of the Extra 400 - you can fly down low at 120 KIAS and not look stupid...
Tomorrow, I'll take my GF to our island. The weather isn't great, but that's the news - in summer it is 99% certain that it will be good enough. Punch through, fly on top, dash down - that's all... What a feeling.
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TimS
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by TimS »

Antoine wrote: Extra have a couple used E400s for sale and there was this low time pilot there looking at one. We became friendly and I didn't know how to convey to him "don't"... without hurting his feelings or upsetting the Extra sales guy...
I then did a VFR hop to Düsseldorf which is really around the corner. That again is the beauty of the Extra 400 - you can fly down low at 120 KIAS and not look stupid...
Tomorrow, I'll take my GF to our island. The weather isn't great, but that's the news - in summer it is 99% certain that it will be good enough. Punch through, fly on top, dash down - that's all... What a feeling.
Why would you say not get the Extra 400?

Tim
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dgger
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by dgger »

TimS wrote:Why would you say not get the Extra 400?
While I clearly cannot speak for Antoine, I can tell you what information I could dig up while researching an Extra500 that was on the market not to long ago. It is truly a marvelous machine - even by todays standard. The Allison turbine burns 20 gph, great range, spacious, pressurized cabin and all, but:

1. While the type is still maintained by SST Flugtechnik on behalf of the Chinese owners, zero development is happening. That means about anything that is not there today (Radar, SVT, ADS-B, TCAS, etc.) would need to get developed by the existing owner pooling their funds to finance the development (read: it is not happening).

2. Part availability can be a challenge from what I hear. While most parts can be obtained from third parties, some may not be available. You better not loose that windscreen...

3. I was also told to be vary of the Avgas burners. The fleet is aging and most aircraft have not seen too much movement in their lifetime. Perhaps, Antoine can shed some light on the state of the engine situation.

I would love to see Extra pick up the type certificates from the Chinese and ressurect the Phoenix. There is a lot of potential here, I think.
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Derek
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Derek »

Thanks Antoine, great review to share of both planes! Life has its quirks: The Extra looks superior in almost all ways but it’s currently orphaned. I also don’t like that switching from my diamond to a nice 6 seater for the whole family results in the level of statistical risk to human life going up dramatically: higher min glide speed = more energy carried into a possible crash landing, less reliable engine in a pa46, less forgiving aircraft for a weekend warrior pilot. With cars it’s the opposite: the family is safer, and I feel better, with them in a nice big suv compared to Dad’s sporty car.
Antoine
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine »

Derek - while I agree that the Extra 400 has a higher stall speed than a DA20, it is remarkably good for the category. It will stall at 58 knots, but more importantly it has a glide ratio of 15:1 which is simply amazing.
And the carbon fiber pressure vessel makes the plane very crashworthy.
I will of course not argue about the fact that you are MUCH more likely to do an emergency landing in an Extra 400...
(answer to Tim: it takes a good nerve and well trained reactions to save the show if/when the E400 acts up - you don't want a 200 hour pilot losing engine and pressurization at FL250 and freaking out while descending in IMC... this is too much of a step up and I think he should make the SR22 intermediate stop and get himself some IMC time first...)

Peter is right in many ways about the Extra 500: it is even more of a prototype. I am not aware that it has FIKI certification in the US... only 7 were built.
The good news is that avionics upgrades are OK - there are enough STCs that you could do what I did on a 500. As I wrote before the only sore spot is the AP.

Being wary about the Extra 400 is ok, it is not for everyone - but not because the fleet is aging - most of them have about 1000 hours and some are hangar queens.
The problem with these is that you need a highly qualified mechanic to make them work reliably. And a passionate pilot who is willing to accept the quirks AND deal with diagnostics etc...
Funny enough I believe that the maintenance situation is just as challenging with the PA46 - it is inherent to the complexity of a piston/turbo/pressurized/retractable aircraft with lots of whistles and bells. The only difference is that the Extra is less known and some parts are difficult to source. We have just set up an Extra 400 owners association to deal with that and refurbish stuff that would have otherwise been scrapped.
One member recently broke the engine due to oil loss and TCM helped out in providing necessary spares.
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