What comes after a DA40?

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rwtucker
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by rwtucker » Tue Dec 08, 2015 11:45 pm

Nice prop! Its going to force a matching paint job now. What's your 75% cruise now Erik?
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine » Wed Dec 09, 2015 7:13 am

Fantastic! Please explain your method -I am a G1000 spoiled kid!
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine » Wed Dec 09, 2015 8:09 pm

Just ordered the scimitar prop from MT and asked them for the full metal leading edge.
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Erik » Thu Dec 10, 2015 4:53 pm

Hi Antoine, Was that a question to me, explain method? I don't understand.

But yay for you to order the nickel leading edge version of their prop. Its gorgeous striking option, if nothing else, but I think money well spent since it dramatically alleviates any worries about durability.

Robert, with these turbo airplanes, cruise speed is so very dependent on altitude. I don't often run 75% - but I do often run 72%. I see between 195 to 205 from 10 to 12k. But I see 220 to 230TAS at my certified ceiling of FL24 depending on if I am running from 72 to 78% cruise. 78% cruise is actually not as bad as it sounds since it is a downrated engine which at 305hp in my installation is certified at 310 to 335 in various installations in the Cessna 340 or 4hundred series. But still I generally run 65 to 72 % since I am pretty happy with the balance of speed and longevity and fuel flow. (But people with the IO360 would balk at fuel flows of a belching tsio520nb hot rod engine). Also, I rarely go above FL19 as a self imposed concept of what I think is a bad idea for physiological reasons in an unpressurized airplane for possible oxygen emergency reasons. I do occasionally go FL21. I can count on my right hand how many times I have been higher than that.
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine » Thu Dec 10, 2015 10:16 pm

Hi Erik

These are impressive numbers. Wow!

My question was referring to this:
Do you know how to do the 3 corners horseshoe method to test TAS? Before and after your new prop?

I just heard from MT that the cool looking option is A LOT of well spent money (to the tune of 2600 € or $ 3000). They said they were nickel leading edges, but they must be nickel-plated 24 carat gold ?!? Anyway I went for it because I except to fly (briefly) in icing on a regular basis.
Mine will be jet black on both sides and I have yet to find a way to explain to my friends at MT that the ugly little green stickers are unwelcome - and maybe they should pay a graphic designer a small percentage of my recent gold-nickel investment to fix their logo!
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Erik » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:21 pm

Hi Antoine,

Oh - you were asking about the horseshoe method - yes - believe it or not - this method is considered more accurate than the 4 directions in a square and take the simple sample mean method.

It is by Professor Rogers - aero professor at the US Naval Academy in years past and it was validated against the spinner tow method (a little spinner device that is towed behind the airplane - like a boat sort of). Funny enough - I used to teach math at USNA many years ago - when he was there - but I never knew he was there since it was before I was flying and I missed the chance to meet him.

http://www.nar-associates.com/technical ... screen.pdf

Yeah those Nickel leading edges are very expensive. That said, I am much relieved to have much less worry about the general integrity of the blades - and yes for ice. You see I have a TKS airplane. And kicking up stones, etc. And they look cool.

Yup - rockets are very fast. :-) My airplane climbs like a homesick angel too. I once timed a climb to 17000 from home field 495 in just under 13 min - 12:xx. And last month in response to a forum challenge I timed stop holding brakes accelerate to take off and climb to 10,000 in 6:40. They don't call it rocket for nothing.
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Erik » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:01 am

Robert - I do have an appointment at the paint shop in March - which I decided shortly after I put the prop on.
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:16 am

LOL Erik I'm glad I just rehearsed math with my 16 year old boy and Excel with my 21 year old daughter!

I a mourning tonight: my beloved N807DS is gone for real, downpayment arrived and preliminary paperwork signed... :(
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine » Sat Dec 12, 2015 3:56 pm

First instruction flights scheduled on monday.
Studying the POH.
Here some data points FWIW:

Stall speed full flaps at MTOW of 1999Kg: 58 KTAS (76 KTAS without flaps, thank you Mr Fowler!)
Cruise climb: 120 KIAS
Best rate: 100 KIAS / 1300 fpm initial climb

Mid weight data (1800Kg) FL200

Climb from SL: 21.5 min, 10.5 USG
75% cruise: 210 KTAS, 21 GPH
65% (LOP) cruise: 185 KTAS, 15.5 GPH

Range at 65%: 1'100 NM plus reserves

Some things I really liked:
dual alternators, 100+80 Amps/28 V!
dual vacuum pumps (for de-icing boots)
dual pitot and static sources
heated lift sensor
fully heated windscreen
8000 ft cabin at 25'000 ft
Only 11.5 m wingspan! That's less than a DA40!

And things I did *not* like so far

Unusable fuel : 16 USG (!!!)
Cabin seats are not adjustable at all
Landing light seems to be on the "minimal" side
Comparison with the PA46 is a bit disappointing: despite its all carbon fiber construction and very sophisticated wing, the E400 is only marginally faster.
I suspect that the engine cowling is the culprit - it has more openings than solid surfaces...
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Re: What comes after a DA40?

Post by Antoine » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:14 pm

Pirep after a single flight:
The Extra 400 is very very cool. I am delighted.

Refueling is a lot of work. Need a ladder and a screwdriver. Also not really cheap...
It feels heavy while taxiing but visibility from the pilot's seat is better than in a Malibu.
Startup is a very sexy procedure involving a gazillion switches located on a panel near the PIC's left arm.
Noise level is lower than in a DA40, although this particular engine was not smooth on idle.
Take-off is not the aircraft's primary strength to say the least.
Acceleration is modest, and it needs a lot of speed before rotation (75 KIAS). It will then just barely climb until the gear is retracted. After that, everything is ok:
Cruise climb between 120 and 140 KIAS was a solid 1000 fpm (we were below MTOW).
I did not focus on airspeed, but remember seeing around 185 KIAS at 4500 feet or so.
I was much more interested in handling and this is where the Extra 400 shows its DNA.
The aircraft is even more responsive than a DA40. You just point it there and it goes where you want it.
It does not "float", it goes up or level or down. Steep turns are delightful. Crisp, precise, rock solid.
For some reason I felt compelled to watch the ball and make the turns perfectly coordinated, much more so than in a DA40.
I can't really tell you about how to land it, because... I was airsick.
My (friendly) instructor misunderstood my interest for lively maneuvers and gave me a nasty shot of negative G's.
That was that...
My vague memory of the landing is that it was by no means a greaser. The Extra lands more like a Tomcat on an aircraft carrier. I remember a distinct "thump".
Despite the small annoyance with the negative G's, I loved the flight.
The maintenance facility (Flugzeugwerft Möller in Bonn Hangelar) are not only the Extra E400 experts, they are extremely friendly and service oriented. I spent 2 hours with their avionics specialist re-designing the instrument panel.

We started a full refurbishing project with the goal of making N121AG better than new.
This includes a new instrument panel with Garmin G500 / G750, an EDM 930 engine monitor and a well integrated iPad for everything that may be offloaded to it (including Syn Vis, geo-referenced charts and of course flight planning).
The engine and prop will undergo major surgery and the interior will be completely redone as well.

Needless to say, it feels like Christmas!
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