Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

[BRS]

We all accept needing engine overhauls after 2,000 to 2,400 hrs, 10-15yrs. My sense is that we should be reserving for avionics replacement the same way we reserve for engine overhaul.

Yes - but...
If you have an old cessna with 40 year old steam gauges they are still current and probably still working. If not easy enough to replace. Same with the center stack. Thing is we are dealing with a new paradigm and just now realizing it. My father in law purchased a desktop computer some years ago and had it delivered and installed. He asked the installer 'how long will this last?". The response was "a life time but it'll be obsolete in 6 months". I don't like it, but these glass panels have a rather large price for all the smart things they can do. That is, they obsolete rather quickly compared to what us older pilots are used to.

I can't help wonder how long it will be before the NXi is something that is not well supported because technology has moved on and it (NXi) becomes "like, so yesterday". Interesting though, I have a first generation iPad mini and Apple seems to keep upgrading the software. Why can't this sort of model work with the avionics. Oh, I forgot, the iPad is not certified or TSO or anything like that.

[Keith M]

The reality is that the G1000 is a 15yr old computer, irrespective of when it was installed. There are limits on what you can expect from a 15yr old computer.

That's true, but all most of us are asking for is the latest release of the software which can be run on our obsolete hardware - same as is available for Cirrus and Cessna customers.

[CFIDave]

The reality is that the G1000 is a 15yr old computer, irrespective of when it was installed. There are limits on what you can expect from a 15yr old computer.

That's true, but all most of us are asking for is the latest release of the software which can be run on our obsolete hardware - same as is available for Cirrus and Cessna customers.

FYI, Cessna owners have the same issue: If you have a legacy G1000 172/182/206, the newest software available is outdated and is not the latest GDU 15.XX that can run on legacy G1000s.

The issue with outdated G1000 software applies to multiple aircraft manufacturers (not just Diamond), and is really a consequence of the high cost of FAA testing and certification associated with flight decks that are integrated into the airframe. Each new G1000 software release must be flight tested and approved separately for each airframe variant. It's not like a Garmin GTN750 navcom where Garmin can simply publish an approved model list (AML) for installation across dozens of aircraft types. With an estimated 15,000 or so G1000s out in the field, this issue only applies to a small fraction of the more than 200,000 FAA-registered (not to mention other country) aircraft -- with an average GA aircraft age approaching 50 years -- and hence hasn't become visible to the regulators or lobbying groups like AOPA or EAA.

[Rich]

I can't help wonder how long it will be before the NXi is something that is not well supported because technology has moved on and it (NXi) becomes "like, so yesterday". Interesting though, I have a first generation iPad mini and Apple seems to keep upgrading the software. Why can't this sort of model work with the avionics. Oh, I forgot, the iPad is not certified or TSO or anything like that.

If it's truly a first-generation mini, you don't get IOS upgrades any more. These are frozen in version 9.x. Second generation on they do update. And I have a 10 year-old Mac that can not be updated to the latest Mac OS.

In general, this aspect of the discussion is correct. Those of us with the non-integrated panels can mostly upgrade/modify stuff without the OEM's involvement at all. WAAS upgrade, for example, was totally between Garmin, my shop and myself. The same with the ADS-B transponder swap: Bendix/King, the shop and myself.

[Keith M]

FYI, Cessna owners have the same issue: If you have a legacy G1000 172/182/206, the newest software available is outdated and is not the latest GDU 15.XX that can run on legacy G1000s.

I didn't know that, thanks. However, I bet they have all been updated since 2006, which is the latest release for DA40TDIs. It's the bad faith of Diamond in supporting their customers which really rankles.

[Vasco]

DA42 NG has the same old obsolete hardware. But new software...

[ememic99]

The reality is that the G1000 is a 15yr old computer, irrespective of when it was installed. There are limits on what you can expect from a 15yr old computer.

That's true, but all most of us are asking for is the latest release of the software which can be run on our obsolete hardware - same as is available for Cirrus and Cessna customers.

FYI, Cessna owners have the same issue: If you have a legacy G1000 172/182/206, the newest software available is outdated and is not the latest GDU 15.XX that can run on legacy G1000s.

The issue with outdated G1000 software applies to multiple aircraft manufacturers (not just Diamond), and is really a consequence of the high cost of FAA testing and certification associated with flight decks that are integrated into the airframe. Each new G1000 software release must be flight tested and approved separately for each airframe variant. It's not like a Garmin GTN750 navcom where Garmin can simply publish an approved model list (AML) for installation across dozens of aircraft types. With an estimated 15,000 or so G1000s out in the field, this issue only applies to a small fraction of the more than 200,000 FAA-registered (not to mention other country) aircraft -- with an average GA aircraft age approaching 50 years -- and hence hasn't become visible to the regulators or lobbying groups like AOPA or EAA.

Good attemp in defending Diamond but the situation here is bit different. Who is the owner of IP rigths? Diamond. So we’re not talking about Garmin’s task to test dozens of types including DA40/42 with CD engines, because Garmin can’t do that. We’re asking Diamond to provide decent support for their customer base by ensuring these upgrades are prepared and test done. Let’s see what Diamond will propose.

[TwinStarScott]

I very much appreciate reading the various perspectives of so many owners who has chosen to speak up - by posting on this lively and important topic. As this is a subject that greatly impacts all of us.

Early in this thread, a number of you were debating the approximate costs associated for DAI to clear all the technical and regulatory hurdles for updating GDU software. And while these rough cost estimates (or guesstimates) varied widely - one thing I believe we can ALL agree on is there are substantial hidden and incalculable costs to DAI by letting this long standing problem continue to fester. As the lost opportunities for DAI are not only in the form of lost sales (past, present and future) but also by creating the opposite of goodwill among their customer base.

Granted, everyone knows all corporations have the tendency to understandably be heavily focused on their next quarterly financial report. Which can lead to decisions being made that are harmful to their long term profitability, even survivability. Generically speaking here.

The completely unanswerable question in this particular GA circumstance is: how much would DAI's market share increase by - should they ever decide to adopt the practice Cirrus aircraft did long ago? Where all Cirrus models of their legacy G1000 aircraft have been kept current, with GDU software that is completely up to date (according to Garmin Tech. Support*).

Since starting this thread and the G1000 petition in November of last year, we can today at least feel fairly confident our combined efforts have received the attention of upper management at DAI. The question posed above is one only the manufacturer can ultimately answer. So as the DAN forum continues to await good news - we ask DAI to contemplate the numerous long term benefits to them by fully supporting their existing legacy G1000 fleet.

For those who are brand new to this discussion, please consider adding your DA40 or DA42 to this petition drive by clicking HERE Thanks!

* plus (as far as I know), software updates are done at no charge to the aircraft owner by any certified Garmin avionics dealer. Although, according to one avionics shop, upgrading to GDU versions several levels higher, requires incremental upgrades. And is therefore a more complicated and time-consuming process, say in the case of going from GDU version 9.05 to 15.xx


According to the link below, in 2017:

Cirrus sold 337 aircraft, while Diamond sold 137 aircraft.

https://gama.aero/wp-content/uploads/20 ... 082018.pdf

[TwinStarScott]

This morning Aaron signed up his Diamond Star (N333PU), bringing the list to 136 aircraft. Welcome to him.

[Boatguy]

I completely agree that Diamond should unambiguously state a s/w upgrade policy, both for legacy G1000 and NXi owners. An unambiguous software upgrade policy, whatever it is, will clear the air and set everyone's expectations.

The Diamond Airmail I received today is teasing a single unified web site which sounds like they are slowly coming around to a unified message for US and European customers which is a good sign.

There is no question that the best source of new individual Diamond customers is the installed base of Diamond owners.