Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Rich » Thu May 30, 2019 2:12 am

TwinStarScott wrote:
Thu May 30, 2019 1:29 am
... Certainly this is great news for the all steam gauge / six pack owners!
Not so much. I've looked at this for my plane and there are complications, especially with having to have backup instruments and with limits on available panel real estate.
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott » Thu May 30, 2019 2:57 am

No room Rich for even a single G5 configured as a backup AI?

Seems if Garmin went to all the trouble, effort and expense of adding DA20's and 40's to the AML list for the G3X touch, they must of come with something that would work well for our almost identical air frames - even with the limited panel space and depth. . . .
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Rich » Thu May 30, 2019 3:36 am

The AML for the G3X currently specifically excludes the use of a G5 as backup in an IFR DA40. And the more desirable GFC500 is not yet a go for the DA 40.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott » Thu May 30, 2019 9:41 am

Why then the disconnect for the G5 when it comes to the DA40? As the 2016 AML list is huge and even includes the DA20.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... WI_AML.pdf

Certainly there are countless numbers of G5's flying in IFR conditions everyday, adding a much greater margin of safety with its four hour emergency backup battery (versus only a meager 30 minutes for the electric AI's of the legacy equipped G1000 aircraft).

As for space requirements of the G3X:

In taking some quick measurements tonight, the Grumman Tiger panel is only ~ 2” wider than that of the DA40 / DA42. Then when looking at the G3X touch, AA5B installation, notice how much empty space there is on the co-pilot side of the cockpit. Which might lend itself to several different panel layouts in the early model Diamonds:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all ... ed-singles

The height of the panels is slightly greater with the Diamonds, but it's a more difficult measurement due to the upper ledge component and whether or not to count this as part of the overall height. Worst case, panel height still favors Diamonds – with panel depth being one of the main concerns.

It would be most interesting to know if any DA40 owner has recently consulted with an avionics shop directly, to determine what is, and is not possible, when it comes to G3X touch display options (here in May of 2019)?

In all fairness, I've heard the screen resolution on the G3X touch is not great as with other Garmin displays, but would imagine some of you have been able to do a side by side comparison. If so, your impressions?

As for the GFC500 A/P, there is hope for the DA40 with regards to this too, as according to this same article by Mike Collins:

"The GFC 500 is available as an option for select Beechcraft Bonanza, Cessna 172/182/210, Grumman AA-5, Mooney M20, and Piper PA–28 models, with additional certifications underway."
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Rich » Thu May 30, 2019 2:05 pm

Re: G3X

As to why the DA40 is singled out with regard to the G5 (explicitly or by omission), the explanation from Garmin is that it's primarily due a procedural approach they used for certification. It's likely to be corrected before long, but not so far.

See my discussion on all this in "The Next Stuff" in the DA40 forum as I analyzed it all. I've measured my panel specifically. Basically a G3X is major panel rework for me. This kind of thing often winds up being far more expensive and time-consuming than expected. The readily available space is pretty much limited to that taken up by the six-pack. The backup instrument(s), whatever one uses, would wind up on the right side out of ready view of the pilot. I'm not even sure that would meet current requirements for backup instruments. Unless and until the KAP140 could be replaced (likely pretty far in the future - Garmin installs custom firmware settings at the factory in the GFC 500 for each approved model), I'd also be stuck with needing to keep the TC.

Based on communication with Garmin, the G5 will likely come to be approved for the DA40 before very long and I do plan on installing one sometime in the future to replace the KCS 55A. My plans are more modest. I lack glass-envy and I'm OK with putting another $7K or so in my plane in the near future, but not another $25-$30K+. The A/C article comports with my previous estimates with regard to cost. That $7K is in part justified as it would be replacing units (AI, HSI) that are likely to need expensive overhaul/replacement before long, anyway.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by NickBudd » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:37 am

Everyone who purchased a G1000 equipped aircraft (Diamond, Mooney, Cirrus, Cessna, etc) is in the same boat. Airframe manufacturers see the phase-out as an opportunity to sell new aircraft (in the case of Diamond, also new Austro engines), so they are slow or refuse to offer upgrade opportunities, regardless of cost. This is business, but the aircraft business is regulated by the FAA. If the FAA determined that the public interest demands that safety-related navigation enhancements must be offered to owners of aircraft sold in the US, this conundrum over WAAS upgrades could be quickly remedied. I am not sure that the AOPA would be fully committed to this exercise, since the AOPA has strong ties to the manufacturers, and GA owners do not account for a persuasive number of votes, so there may be no way to press this issue politically. However, the FAA may consider that the time to retake control of the safety practices of aircraft manufacturers in now, after the Boeing scandal. https://time.com/5555728/faa-boeing-regulations/ I think a good case could be made to both the FAA and NTSB, and possibly the European authorities as well, to look into this issue at least.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:30 pm

Six weeks or so to Oshkosh. We’ll see if anything will be announced by Diamond. If not, we can conclude they ignored us.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Boatguy » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:03 pm

NickBudd wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:37 am
Everyone who purchased a G1000 equipped aircraft (Diamond, Mooney, Cirrus, Cessna, etc) is in the same boat. Airframe manufacturers see the phase-out as an opportunity to sell new aircraft (in the case of Diamond, also new Austro engines), so they are slow or refuse to offer upgrade opportunities, regardless of cost.
This may well be the case, but the mfg's logic is hard to follow: Treat the customers badly so they'll buy more of the product?

It's hard for me to imagine too many orphaned owners clamoring to get more from the company that abandoned them.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by NickBudd » Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:39 am

You are right Russ, this is causing a lot of bad feeling between owners and mfg’s, you can see this in all the forums. For Cessna and most of the others it probably is more an issue of cost and business priorities. Diamond is different, they have the WAAS STC for a/c with Austro engines and will shortly have it for NXi. I believe this is their carrot to drive sales of Austro engines to owners with timed-out Centurion engines. Not a pretty picture.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 » Sun Jun 09, 2019 7:52 am

NickBudd wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 6:39 am
I believe this is their carrot to drive sales of Austro engines to owners with timed-out Centurion engines. Not a pretty picture.
It would be a carrot if they didn’t charge it over €400k plus VAT which is for private owner some €500k ($560k). I’m not sure how many owners find this to be acceptable. I definitely am not amongst them.
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