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ememic99
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by ememic99 »

Made even more clear, from this tread and elsewhere: is that every legacy G1000 owner now has an orphaned avionics suite. Which in practical terms means the entire fleet with this equipment will become, in time, daytime VFR only aircraft – short of us all having an Nxi upgrade path, expensive as that will be.
Luckily, it won’t happen soon because it’s not easy to disqualify current IFR certificates on the grounds of outdated software. However, our aircrafts will be less and less competitive and desirable at pre-owned market due to avionics upgrade deadend which will lead to substantial loss of value regardless aircraft condition and flight hours available on engines and props.

It’s obvious that any upgrade directly competes with Diamond’s sales of new aircraft and thus it doesn’t seem much likely it will be welcomed and support by them. However, I’ll try to draw Diamond’s attention to this thread and see if there’s will on their side to offer upgrade path.
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Keith M
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by Keith M »

It has always rankled with me that the software for DA40 TDIs hasn't been updated since 2007 when Diamond washed their hands of the aircraft they sold with Thielert engines. Compare that to the way Cessna and Cirrus treat their customers and you'll understand why. I'll support any move to shame or otherwise encourage the new management to make amends.
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ememic99
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by ememic99 »

Keith M wrote:I'll support any move to shame or otherwise encourage the new management to make amends.
Message sent to the person I have good relationship with. I invited her to take close look to this thread.
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TwinStarScott
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by TwinStarScott »

Totally agree with you both (Emir & Keith)! The only one counterpoint I would make to Emir's post is that potential buyers of new Diamond aircraft might think twice about their possible purchase if they foresee down the road their aircraft might too one day receive the same lack of avionics support. Without a doubt the current policy is not a good long term business decision. And when talking with Garmin rep.'s over the last three plus years on this subject, most are very candid by indicating they are also quite frustrated with the OEM's that have fallen behind the superior avionics support by Cirrus.

Please do let us know what kind of response you receive from the new management.

Thanks, Scott
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ememic99
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by ememic99 »

ScottSutton wrote:The only one counterpoint I would make to Emir's post is that potential buyers of new Diamond aircraft might think twice about their possible purchase if they foresee down the road their aircraft might too one day receive the same lack of avionics support.
This has been always puzzling me - how Diamond has been missing to see the importance of customer support as marketing tool. In my business (IT) we used maintenance and support as one of the main tools for customer retention and new customers acquiring.
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TwinStarScott
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by TwinStarScott »

In defense of Diamond, the tech. support staff fielding questions from owners has actually been quite good and all seem very knowledgeable as they try their best to be helpful. At least that has been my experience.

My main concern, and it's a major one, is limited to the subject of software upgrades for the G1000. Something I believe the tech's likely have absolutely no control over, other than to pass it up the ladder to management.
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reinhardj
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by reinhardj »

I am supporting all activities to get new software and possible conversion to NXI, but this effort should also include the DA40 TDI and both CD-135 and CD-155. The latest GDU software is 5.02!!! Although there was an upgrade path to 12.03 through an STC, this is not possible any more because a conversion to WAAS (GIA63W) was mandatory and these GIAs are not available any more..
Hopefully this time someone from Diamond management will inderstand the necessity of after sales support as I assume, a number of customers for new planes do not want to take the risk of not getting avionics support.
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by TimS »

ScottSutton wrote:Totally agree with you both (Emir & Keith)! The only one counterpoint I would make to Emir's post is that potential buyers of new Diamond aircraft might think twice about their possible purchase if they foresee down the road their aircraft might too one day receive the same lack of avionics support. Without a doubt the current policy is not a good long term business decision. And when talking with Garmin rep.'s over the last three plus years on this subject, most are very candid by indicating they are also quite frustrated with the OEM's that have fallen behind the superior avionics support by Cirrus.

Please do let us know what kind of response you receive from the new management.

Thanks, Scott
Actually, it was this point that forced me essentially out of the DA-42 used market. I want/need WAAS; I fly a fair amount of IFR even to low minimums so I need the LPV down to 200ft AGL versus the 600ft GPS. With no upgrade path or support on the older G1000, that meant going for a new plane. And that was just a bridge too far....

Tim
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by TimS »

Here is the answer from my Garmin contact:

-------------------------------------------------------------

Hello Tim,
since this is an OEM airframe under a type certification they really need to be directing their questions to Diamond on doing this. unless there is a larger number of owners (and I'm talking about hundreds) the NRE costs to do something like this is in the millions of dollars and would not be something Garmin would ever consider. but we have done STC's for OEM's for airframe retrofits if the OEM contracts us to do so.

It will be hard to address each and every customer (as I already get over 200 direct emails a day). But if they're organized, have the person leading this contact me at aviation.support@garmin.com and send it to my attention and I'll be happy to send them this same data. but as I pointed out their first contact is Diamond to get this ball rolling.

_________________
Trek A. Lawler
Supervisor, Garmin Aviation Field Service Engineering
Aviation Product Support
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CFIDave
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Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by CFIDave »

ememic99 wrote:It’s interesting how some people (usually somehow connected to manufacturer) consider 11 years old aircraft as very old and not worth of supporting.
Since this seems to be directed at me, I'm merely questioning the economics that would permit a manufacturer to provide a software-only upgrade for an 11+ year-old aircraft running discontinued avionics. What's the business model for this that would allow the manufacturer to recover its development costs?

This is hardly an implication that DA42 TDI aircraft are old and not worth supporting. With continued parts/repair availability from both Garmin and Diamond, these aircraft are expected to have long lifetimes. Compared to the average GA aircraft that's 40-50 years old, these are still relatively new aircraft.
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