Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

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TwinStarScott
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

Unfortunately at this point, there is not much to add from this side of the pond to Emir's recent and first hand account from the DAI booth at Aero. Only to say that without a software upgrade for legacy G1000 equipped aircraft, the entire DA fleet based in Canada* potentially could be grounded starting in 2023. At least this is my understanding, as NavCanada continues to hold firm on their plans to implement Phase III of their ADS-B program in 2023 - as this will require both a hardware and software upgrade to a GTX-345DR.

As the originator of the G1000 petition, I remain committed to this endeavor until both the legacy software upgrade to GDU version 15.xx and NXi options are made available by DAI. A number of good things have been set in motion as a result of owners signing this petition and these will hopefully come to fruition in due course. Realizing this is a critical time, my suggestion is that we do our level best to remain patient for any official announcements from DAI – at least until the conclusion of Oshkosh. Finally, if nothing is forthcoming by then, we, as owners, can always go back to the drawing board and collectively brainstorm on what to try next.

On that note, welcome to Dave S (N521DD) for recently adding his DA40 to the list. Current we have 98 DA40's and 54 DA42's. For those DA40 owners who have yet to join this effort, you can help push your make and model up to and above the century mark. To do so, please click HERE

Thanks everyone,
Scott


* or those aircraft wishing to enter or overfly their airspace
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

Correction: a/o today we have a total of 97 DA40's.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

Good news for NXi owners - as major progress is being made by DAI with their long anticipated release of phase II*:

“Update on our DA42-VI

And for all the AvGeeks out there: We have certified the Garmin Flight Stream 510 on all newly built DA42-VI as well as on new DA40 NGs. We are currently working on a Service Bulletin to also offer it to existing customers and to have it certified soon for the DA62.”

Could this be a sign DAI will soon be announcing their plans for legacy owners?

*Per the Diamond Website (see full press release by clicking on the link below):

https://www.diamondaircraft.com/en/abou ... afen-2019/

Finally, welcome to Troy Hooker (N969GL) for signing up his DA40.
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MarkA
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by MarkA »

Please add my name to the list, N123MZ 2010 DA40 XLS
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott »

You got it Mark - thanks! Your DA40 is the 99th model on the list and the 155th overall.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by hkavasch »

Scott I really do appreciate you setting up this petition.. someone had to start something!
I was hoping to get a reaction from Diamond on Aero, but as it sounds there is no movement... maybe we should ask ourselfs how to increase the pressure on them... if we would collect some money we could
- place adds in leading aviation magazines and websites communicating the Diamond Problem to a broader audience
- Form some sort of association, where affected owners could become members... with a head and official spokesman... makes us a more robust discussion partner for diamond
- setup an own website around the topic
- be more prominent in other blogs
- even putting up a small booth a aero, oshkosh, etc..
I think this initiative is ready for the next step, as diamond is not responding...
Hans Kavasch
Flying Club MDG (http://www.edmq.de), Germany
DA40TDI 2.0s CD155, G1000, D4.325, D-EDKY
DA42 2.0 CD135, 42.049, D-GDON
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by MarkA »

I also subscribe to the Cessna 400/TTx forum and the members there seem to be having a very similar problem (or worse) getting Cessna to release G1000 updates for the now discontinued Cessna 400 product line. The post below is from Nick Gill that was just submitted today as an example where they seem to be organizing a similar effort with Cessna. I through it was also interesting to see that they're asking for some of the same things from Cessna (e.g., allowing WAAS G1000 to be the GPS source for the ADSB trasponder) and seem to be getting little response from Cessna.

"While this post is mostly relevant to G1000 owners I hope others will join in, as we all can benefit from some added support from Cessna.

As many of you know support from Cessna has been a bit lacking especially in regard to updates to the G1000.

One effect of this is a major safety issue with 154 approaches not being able to be loaded.

http://download.garmin.com/avdb/docs/ga ... usions.pdf

Another large effect is those with WAAS equipped aircraft are unable to use either of the WAAS sources to provide GPS data for ADS-B. Rather you must purchase a more expensive Transponder with yet another WAAS source and mount another antenna to the aircraft. This not only adds cost in equipment that is not needed, but also added install coast and time.

Cessna has been given the software from Garmin quite some time ago. All we need is for Cessna to approve its use.

So I am calling upon all of you to help our voice be heard by Cessna. If you would please take a few moments to drop an email to them stating your concerns and desire for some added support on this matter and any other you might have it would be greatly appreciated and will help all of us greatly in gaining the attention from Cessna that even though they have stopped producing our aircraft , we are still out here flying and need them to step up to the plate.

James Williams at Cessna is aware of the issue and has already been contacted by a few of us here. He has been quite responsive in emailing back and looking to understand our concerns. He has been sending each request up the food chance. He also stated the more emails he receives the more likely something is to happen. So please direct your emails to James at jrwilliams@txtav.com

It would be helpful to include your Tail number, Serial number, and the official type ie. LC-41, LC-42 to aid in removing confusion.

Lastly if you would please fill out the poll below to help keep a running tally of those who have sent in a note on the matter so that we can have something to go to Cessna with it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Nick Gill

P.S. Thanks to Chris Lamprecht for doing the leg work to get the ball rolling on this.

It seems me (as a software company owner) the real issue is that there's no financial motivation for the vendor to address these requests. There are real costs to making these types of software updates. Given that the "total available market" for these update releases is at most a few thousand units and the current expectations is that they're "free" (except for the cost of installation) it doesn't make financial sense for Diamond or any vendor to do the work.

Historically they way enterprise software companies addressed this in the past is to allow customers to optionally pay an "annual maintenance" fee and in return receive periodic maintenance releases of the software. It that industry, the typical annual maintenance fee is 18 to 20 percent of the list price of the initial software license.

Something to consider.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by vontresc »

I think the issue here is the requirement to certify the software upgrades by the manufacturer/STC holder. The FAA should revisit this approach with regard to avionics suites like the G1000. Unfortunately these system are customized to the airframe, and thus the FAA wants the whole shebang retested no matter how much testing was done by Garmin in their development.
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by MarkA »

I have no doubt the regulatory overheads are significant when creating a maintenance release of the G1000 software which compounds this support issue.

Given there’s a lot of base software that’s common to all G1000s and then some custom stuff that’s specific to each airframe – I wonder how the development and testing work is partitioned between Garmin and the airframe manufacturers?

More specifically, who can do the development and testing (e.g., Is it even possible for Diamond to make changes to the G1000 source code independent of Garmin?) and who gets to eat the associated development costs since there's currently no revenue from existing G1000 customers who don't paying anything for these updates?
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Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by vontresc »

The way I understand it is that Garmin makes the core updates. Then it is merged with the airframe specific code, and that version has to go through testing/certification. That burden is on the airframe manufacturer.

I imagine this is quite costly, and not a great profit center for the manufacturer. As much as I want updated G1000 software, the costs associated with certifying a new build probably aren’t justified for Diamond. It sucks, but that’s where we seem to be at.

It would be nice if the testing could be done o. The base code, but I don’t know if the G1000 architecture would lend itself to that.

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