Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

The ramblings of our community of aviators.

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
ememic99
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Emir
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: SEMAD
Airport: LDZA LDVA

Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 113 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by ememic99 » Fri Nov 02, 2018 5:45 pm

CFIDave wrote:Since this seems to be directed at me, I'm merely questioning the economics that would permit a manufacturer to provide a software-only upgrade for an 11+ year-old aircraft running discontinued avionics. What's the business model for this that would allow the manufacturer to recover its development costs?
Before answering, let's make short peek into the past and answer few basic questions and then everything will be more clear.

First of all, let's clarify who is the most responsible for current situation. Obviously it's the one who owns STC. So, even if Garmin wanted to support owners of "discontinued avionics", it wasn't possible in any way, neither by providing new versions of software nor offering hardware upgrades.

Second, how we ended with 11+ year old software and hardware? Simply by Diamond's systematically neglecting existing customers and offering only new aircraft. The only possibility for upgrades were extremely expensive with long down times and even then usually not offering all features available to new aircraft. E.g. first GFC700 or retrofit GFC700 don't have all capabilities of new one or later on this upgrade became available only with AE300 engines upgrade which was initially offered for €120k, then for €250k and recently for ridiculous €400k or so. Today we witness that WAAS upgrade is practically impossible.

Third, if Diamond hadn't immediately stopped supporting owners of DA42 TDI aircrafts (switching completely focus to new AE300 based aircrafts and new sales), maybe we would have ended with some more recent version of G1000 software or even new hardware at competitive pricing. However, Diamond chose what they chose and this can't be changed - it's a past very well known to any DA42 owner.

I don't know how much you know about software development but I've been doing it all my life, since the dawn of computers, including development of embedded software. Development of software for G1000 definitely is not simple and easy task. But if you have the version running on new hardware supporting management of external devices (engines, autopilot, transponder, radios etc.), how hard it can be to develop version supporting management of different set of devices (e.g. different engines) on the same (new) hardware? Or to develop branch of it based on old hardware delivering features that can be delivered taking into account limitation of old hardware. Of course, I can't provide exact answer but I can assure you that we don't talk here about millions of dollars, it's not even a million of dollars but significantly less.

Diamond can choose to put some effort and make competitively priced package of avionics upgrade (or just a software upgrade if possible) and enable authorized shops to perform this upgrade. It's not necessary to recover everything invested in such effort in money received from customers. Some funds will be recovered via new customers acquiring based on assurance in good customer support in future. This can be treated as investment in marketing and sales.

However, Diamond can choose to do nothing and increase the base of unhappy customers which definitely doesn't help in advertising and increasing business. Maybe we're small in numbers but GA in total is small and new sales in this GA segment doesn't have dramatical rise. I can assure you that if a company neglects one segment of its customers sooner or later it will neglect the others as well. You just have to wait on your turn.
User avatar
neema
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Neema
Aircraft: DA42-VI
Registration: N112NG
Airport: KFAT

Posts: 100
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:43 am
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by neema » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:24 pm

Can I join the list just to support? We're not affected but we deal with this on another plane and it tortures us.
User avatar
klang
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: karl
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: DGGWU
Airport: LSZC

Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:24 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by klang » Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:55 pm

Thanks guys, for taking the lead. Please count me in.
User avatar
TwinStarScott
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Scott
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: N189Y
Airport: WN53

Posts: 304
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 3:13 am
Has thanked: 455 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by TwinStarScott » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:12 pm

Welcome Carl & Neema!

Also, if Reinhard would be willing to generate support on the DA40 forum* that would be incredibly helpful. As per Garmin, we need the petition to be in the hundreds. Also, thanks very much to Tim for getting in touch with Supervisor Trek Lawler at Garmin! So following Trek's advice, is there anyone that has an upper level management contact at Diamond?

In the meantime we simply need as many owners as possible to respond on this forum (however briefly) - just like Carl and Neema did this afternoon. Thanks and keep 'em coming!

*Perhaps a quick post directing interested DA40 owners to this thread would suffice.
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
User avatar
pietromarx
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Peter
Aircraft: DA40
Registration: NZZZ
Airport: KWHP

Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 73 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by pietromarx » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:18 pm

The situation on the DA40s has been equally irritating and even more complex. The STC used to be held by Garmin who never did anything with it. Now the STC for G1000 installations is held by Diamond, but we've heard nothing on future updates. The GTX-345R / ADS-B issues have been a symptom of the issue.

Please count me in. As a software engineer who has worked across many regulated industries, it is strange to me that Diamond hasn't focused on keeping its digital technologies up to the same level as everything else. I also wonder what their military and government folks buying the special mission versions of the planes must get or think.
User avatar
hkavasch
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Hans
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: D-GDON
Airport: EDMQ

Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:55 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by hkavasch » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:52 pm

D-GDON, SN 42.049
2005
2.0 Thielert engines
Count me in.. really would like to get nxi or newer software
Hans Kavasch
Flying Club MDG (http://www.edmq.de), Germany
DA40TDI 2.0s CD155, G1000, D4.325, D-EDKY
DA42 2.0 CD135, 42.059, D-GDON
User avatar
TwinStarScott
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Scott
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: N189Y
Airport: WN53

Posts: 304
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 3:13 am
Has thanked: 455 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by TwinStarScott » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:54 pm

I appreciate hearing for your insights on the DA40 side of the ledger. You pose an interesting question about the military and government owned Diamonds. My guess is they'll be first ones to have an upgrade path to the Nxi and long before us civilians.

Anything you can do to steer your fellow DA40 owners to this thread would be most appreciated - thanks again Peter!
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
User avatar
TwinStarScott
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Scott
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: N189Y
Airport: WN53

Posts: 304
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 3:13 am
Has thanked: 455 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by TwinStarScott » Fri Nov 02, 2018 8:59 pm

Thanks for weighing in Hans - good to hear from you!
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
User avatar
hkavasch
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Hans
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: D-GDON
Airport: EDMQ

Posts: 126
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:55 pm
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 20 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by hkavasch » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:00 pm

We actually also operate a 2007 DA40 with CD155

You can count me twice if da40 also counts...
Hans Kavasch
Flying Club MDG (http://www.edmq.de), Germany
DA40TDI 2.0s CD155, G1000, D4.325, D-EDKY
DA42 2.0 CD135, 42.059, D-GDON
User avatar
TwinStarScott
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Scott
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: N189Y
Airport: WN53

Posts: 304
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 3:13 am
Has thanked: 455 times
Been thanked: 99 times

Re: TDI owners: outdated Garmin G1000 software (version 9.05)

Post by TwinStarScott » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:08 pm

Ha - you bet it does Hans!
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Post Reply