Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

The ramblings of our community of aviators.

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
NickBudd
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Nick
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: N483TS
Airport: LFPT LFMD

Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:49 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by NickBudd » Fri May 10, 2019 8:15 am

I read somewhere that legacy G1000s will be grounded in Canada come September due to inability to retrofit some new required avionics component (not WAAS). Spare parts may not be a problem in the near future, but bearing in mind the source the near future may not be that long. As for the regulatory issue (illegal tie-in) I agree with your analysis, as we have the same rule in the States (FTC Act Sec 5). I wrote to the FTC about this two years ago and they said they could not be bothered by an issue that had no impact on the broader economy and they weren’t worried about aircraft safety. They said talk to the FAA!
User avatar
ememic99
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Emir
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: SEMAD
Airport: LDZA LDVA

Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 » Fri May 10, 2019 9:00 am

NickBudd wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 8:15 am
I read somewhere that legacy G1000s will be grounded in Canada come September due to inability to retrofit some new required avionics component (not WAAS).
I'm not aware of such issue. Can it be ADS-B related? Maybe somebody from Canada can comment on this.
Spare parts may not be a problem in the near future, but bearing in mind the source the near future may not be that long.
I'm aware of this - time flies faster than we want.
As for the regulatory issue (illegal tie-in) I agree with your analysis, as we have the same rule in the States (FTC Act Sec 5). I wrote to the FTC about this two years ago and they said they could not be bothered by an issue that had no impact on the broader economy and they weren’t worried about aircraft safety. They said talk to the FAA!
This might be the reason why Diamond doesn't offer WAAS upgrades or GFC700 retrofits for TDI aircrafts anymore. These are not marketed as separate products and you can get them only as an optional upgrade within engine exchange package. That's how they have avoided potential legal issue.
User avatar
Keith M
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Keith
Aircraft: DA40D
Airport: EGNH

Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:54 am
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Keith M » Fri May 10, 2019 10:16 am

Seems like there might come a time when the only way to keep our aircraft flying with Centurion engines will be by "upgrading" our G1000s with steam gauges!

The regulatory regime for glass cockpits wasn't thought through when they were first implemented, and nobody would have predicted that they were buying into a dead-end. This is like when Microsoft drop support for a version of Windows, and the PC it's installed on is not up to the job of running the latest version, so has to be scrapped - except for the amount of money involved. Garmin and the aircraft manufacturers should be legally obliged to provide hardware and software support for the G1000, including WAAS, for an extended period, more in line with airframe lifetimes.
User avatar
TimS
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Timothy
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: N1446C
Airport: 6B6 Stowe MA

Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TimS » Fri May 10, 2019 12:10 pm

ememic99 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:23 am
Unfortunately quoted thread shows how ill informed people are. A lot of guessing, misinformation and conclusions without any grounds (in some posts). As the time passes I’m more and more inclined to thinking that the majority of users will have to live with what they have if they don’t want to invest 100k in their aircrafts. We’re trying to find the way to move on from GDU 9.x and at the same time people are stuck with 12.x or 13.x without airframe manufacturers’ support and upgrade path developed.
In the thread, or in Ryan's post?

Tim
User avatar
TimS
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Timothy
Aircraft: OTHER
Registration: N1446C
Airport: 6B6 Stowe MA

Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:10 am
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 37 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TimS » Fri May 10, 2019 12:16 pm

Keith M wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 10:16 am
Seems like there might come a time when the only way to keep our aircraft flying with Centurion engines will be by "upgrading" our G1000s with steam gauges!

The regulatory regime for glass cockpits wasn't thought through when they were first implemented, and nobody would have predicted that they were buying into a dead-end. This is like when Microsoft drop support for a version of Windows, and the PC it's installed on is not up to the job of running the latest version, so has to be scrapped - except for the amount of money involved. Garmin and the aircraft manufacturers should be legally obliged to provide hardware and software support for the G1000, including WAAS, for an extended period, more in line with airframe lifetimes.
A great way to drive up the price :D
Or to move the companies to a subscription model; where you effectively lease your avionics.
It costs money, a lot of money, to maintain the certification and handle the retrofits. So be prepared to pay; or have fewer choices. e.g. To lower costs do not be surprised if Diamond offers the NXi upgrade as an option on the engine package; but raises the price and makes the GFC A/P required....

Tim
User avatar
Keith M
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Keith
Aircraft: DA40D
Airport: EGNH

Posts: 354
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 9:54 am
Has thanked: 25 times
Been thanked: 38 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by Keith M » Fri May 10, 2019 12:28 pm

TimS wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:16 pm
A great way to drive up the price :D
Or way to keep your customers satisfied and hence drive new sales.

I would be amenable to paying for ongoing support, either through subscriptions or one off payments, but we're not being offered either.
User avatar
ememic99
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Emir
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: SEMAD
Airport: LDZA LDVA

Posts: 421
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
Has thanked: 86 times
Been thanked: 111 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by ememic99 » Fri May 10, 2019 2:02 pm

TimS wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 12:10 pm
ememic99 wrote:
Fri May 10, 2019 5:23 am
Unfortunately quoted thread shows how ill informed people are. A lot of guessing, misinformation and conclusions without any grounds (in some posts). As the time passes I’m more and more inclined to thinking that the majority of users will have to live with what they have if they don’t want to invest 100k in their aircrafts. We’re trying to find the way to move on from GDU 9.x and at the same time people are stuck with 12.x or 13.x without airframe manufacturers’ support and upgrade path developed.
In the thread, or in Ryan's post?

Tim
In the thread by some other posters.
User avatar
NickBudd
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Nick
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: N483TS
Airport: LFPT LFMD

Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:49 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by NickBudd » Fri May 10, 2019 2:14 pm

Maybe there is another way to look at this. At least Diamond has a reason to help with certification of major avionics upgrades; they can use this as leverage to sell engines. Piper and Cessna and Cirrus do not have this incentive, but the fleets are much larger than Diamond’s so Garmin has more incentive to cooperate. Lest we are tempted to blame Diamond for making calculated business decisions, from experience I know how quickly Garmin can lose enthusiasm for software support of discontinued or low volume products (anyone else buy the VIRB aircraft camera?).

The prospect of having a plane that is practically unsaleable or grounded due to avionics obsolescence may not be something we considered when we bought our planes. But it may be that the only solution is to write a large check and hope to recover the additional investment when we sell. (“The Gambler”) A useful move for Diamond would be to partner with a finance company to cover the re-engine and GFC 700 and NXi avionics costs and with Garmin to provide a paid subscription and box replacement service. These financing and management tools are more common in commercial aviation and more challenging to design for the cost-sensitive GA sector, but the reality in the brave new world of TAA is that owners are exposed to foreseeable financial risks that need to be addressed.
User avatar
TwinStarScott
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Scott
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: N189Y
Airport: WN53

Posts: 301
Joined: Mon May 18, 2015 3:13 am
Has thanked: 444 times
Been thanked: 95 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by TwinStarScott » Fri May 10, 2019 8:58 pm

To lower costs do not be surprised if Diamond offers the NXi upgrade as an option on the engine package*
If true, this makes for "interesting" timing to be hanging a Continental diesel (CD) engine on the DA-50.

Further complicating matters for this new aircraft model is the dismissal of John Weber from Continental two months ago, the only CD expert in North America (to my knowledge), who provided phenomenal technical support seven days a week. Currently it stands at 4 1/2 days a week and by email only, with a large time difference.

What “the one hand giveth the other hand taketh away”. . . . . With legacy owners potentially caught in the cross currents.

*engine package = a forced conversion from perfectly fine CD / TDI engines to Austro engines.
To add your aircraft to the G1000 petition (listed below) please send me a PM - thanks!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
User avatar
NickBudd
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
FIRST NAME: Nick
Aircraft: DA42
Registration: N483TS
Airport: LFPT LFMD

Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 8:49 am
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 25 times

Re: Outdated Garmin G1000 software - petition sign-up

Post by NickBudd » Sat May 11, 2019 12:40 pm

Scott, most of the TDI fleet is 2008 and earlier. This means that by 2020 the engines will have reached the 12 yr TBR, so while they may be “perfectly fine engines” mechanically, owners will have to make a decision as to replacement. From a cost and performance standpoint the CD155 engine is very competitive with the Austro, so Diamond is forced to play hard ball with the avionics upgrades, which are entirely in Diamond’s control.
Post Reply