SoCal VFR into IMC

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Lance Murray
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SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by Lance Murray »

Anyone see the Cessna 414 crash on Super Bowl Sunday? Clearly a VFR into IMC. There are many videos with full sound of the airplane coming out of the bottom of clouds then. breakup before impact. This is the predictable result of a VFR pilot venturing in to IMC.

The thing that's hard to understand here is that the weather was clearly IMC. The pilot was a 75 year old commercial rated pilot. He took off and immediately climbed into the IMC like he was on a IFR flight plan. Wasn't talking to anyone at all in the So Cal airspace.

If this truly is how it looks I say this pilot murdered 4 people on the ground. WTF? Yes this is something that makes me pretty angry!

Of course the NTSB report won't be released for years so this is all speculation but.....The weather was clearly IMC, the pilot was not on an IFR flight plan and he was talking to no-one according to the NTSB briefing.
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Re: SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by Rich »

Ownership/registration of this aircraft is murky, to say the least. The pilot was instrument-rated, but who knows how current or proficient. This story is going to linger for awhile.
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Don
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Re: SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by Don »

I am not sure you can say for sure it was it was IMC at 7800 MSL where radar had him last located. My house is 1100 MSL and I have a 180 degree airplane type view of the LA basin and Orange County. I also fly over Fullerton Airport about twice weekly and am very familiar with the airspace. It is class Bravo above 4000 feet. I do recall looking at my view about an hour before the game started and the clouds were patchy over KFUL. I could see some blue sky above the clouds, perhaps around 4000 or 5000 feet MSL. So it could very well be he was in VFR. That said, the ILS for LAX's four runways are just over and to the north of the location where the 414 went down so I hope the pilot was talking to SoCal ATC. I was wondering if the pilot might of had some type medical issue and became incapacitated. I guess we won't know for sure until the NTSB report comes out.
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Re: SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by mdieter »

Flight into IMC may have been a factor, but the video I have seen and heard shows the plane having some type of "explosive" event with fire and breakup before impact. The wreckage was spread over four blocks which also supporting the mid-air breakup. I can't imagine IMC that can break a plane into parts.
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Re: SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by jb642DA »

Perhaps a "Physiological Incident" - heart attack, stroke.......??
Falling forward on the yoke wil overpower auto pilot, if it was on.....perhaps the breakup was do to overspeeding.
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Re: SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by CFIDave »

mdieter wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:53 pm Flight into IMC may have been a factor, but the video I have seen and heard shows the plane having some type of "explosive" event with fire and breakup before impact. The wreckage was spread over four blocks which also supporting the mid-air breakup. I can't imagine IMC that can break a plane into parts.
Actually there have been numerous VFR into IMC accidents where the plane entered a spiral dive and broke up in mid-air as the wings, tail, etc. came off -- in some cases because the pilot pulled back on the stick imposing too many Gs. (Fortunately I don't recall any Diamond ever suffering from a mid-air break-up.) I'm not saying that's what happened in this accident, but it's a possibility.
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Re: SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by Rich »

CFIDave wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:04 pm
mdieter wrote: Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:53 pm Flight into IMC may have been a factor, but the video I have seen and heard shows the plane having some type of "explosive" event with fire and breakup before impact. The wreckage was spread over four blocks which also supporting the mid-air breakup. I can't imagine IMC that can break a plane into parts.
Actually there have been numerous VFR into IMC accidents where the plane entered a spiral dive and broke up in mid-air as the wings, tail, etc. came off -- in some cases because the pilot pulled back on the stick imposing too many Gs. (Fortunately I don't recall any Diamond ever suffering from a mid-air break-up.) I'm not saying that's what happened in this accident, but it's a possibility.
I won't post it, but for a demonstration google "partenavia wing loss accident" and view one of the videos. A sobering demonstration of pulling up too hard at a high airspeed.
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Lance Murray
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Re: SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by Lance Murray »

An explosive event is often the result of VFR qualified pilot into IMC. The pilot gets in to a spiral, pops out of the bottom and pulls. Both the tail and wings departed. Also just a thought but if you are incapacitated a straight down vertical dive wouldn't be the usual result. Either flutter or G pulled the airplane apart.

Medical event? The fuselage was largely intact and pancaked in flat. So possibly the post-mortem might give something useful. I will also say this. It is just me but flying out of the LA Basin on a day with weather there is almost zero chance I would depart VFR. It is far easier to file and fly IFR. This pilot was rated but departed VFR. According to the NTSB brief he wasn't;t talking to anyone. I don't remember if Yorba Linda is directly below the bravo so not sure if he was inside Bravo. Obviously if he was he would have to be talking to So Cal.

The video I saw and heard it seemed as if the power was not reduced and the airplane was going extremely fast before it came apart explosively.
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Re: SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by Don »

Lance Murray wrote: Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:20 am The video I saw and heard it seemed as if the power was not reduced and the airplane was going extremely fast before it came apart explosively.
Hi Lance,
Yes, some of the witnesses said the engines were whining so loud that they had to cover their ears. To me, that could be a clue that the pilot was incapacitated. As pilots, we are taught to immediately pull back on the power when in a steep nose down attitude. Obviously,the engine power was still set for climbing.
The class bravo for the LAX ILS's starts about a half mile or so north of the crash site.
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Re: SoCal VFR into IMC

Post by Pascal »

If I was to commit suicide but wanting to make it appear like an accident so my family gets the life insurance, this is one way to do it.

I have always wondered how many crashes are really a suicide.
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