The G1000 project - "The next step"

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Chris
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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by Chris »

Lou wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:58 pm "Of note, Diamond has committed to working with Garmin to provide a further software update to DA40-180 customers in order to support seamless integration of the available ADSB solution from Garmin".

Does this mean a software patch to enable G1000 to access existing WAAS data?
That's a good question. My first thought was that it would be merely updating the MFD so that it could display ADS-B weather, but I guess it could also include the update to the GIA63W so that it can act as a WAAS source. Hopefully DAI will clarify soon. Since they're not committing to a timeline, I'm assuming it won't be until well after the 1/1/20 FAA deadline.
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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by Boatguy »

jast wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:55 am What about all the nice NXI features other manufacturers support (Visual approaches, surface watch, etc). Will they only be supported via phase II?
A Phase II upgrade for my DA40NG included the GMA1360 (audio panel), GEA71B (engine monitor) and 2x GIA64W. The most welcome software feature was support for the Flight Stream 510 which enables wireless flight plan transfers and database updates. But the Phase II features on a DA42-VI are richer (e.g., Yaw Damper and ESP) so perhaps the DA62 feature set is even richer.

My Phase II software does not include any of the other features which you mention (surface watch, visual approaches, new FIS-B wx and more) that are available on both Garmin discrete nav/comm devices and other certified aircraft with NXi (e.g., Beechcraft, Textron, Cirrus, etc.). Further, Mr. McFadzean seemed to be saying in his letter that DAI was not making any commitment to ever provide future software updates.

That said, it's hard to imagine that DAI wants to be on record saying that G1000 features are frozen when the plane leaves the factory and owners should expect no updates other than those required for airworthiness. That doesn't seem like a winning marketing strategy so I believe there is some miscommunication and hope that the future updates issue will be addressed with greater clarity later this year.

Some commenters are thinking that DAI is going to send out a clarification to this letter with more details in the coming weeks. I do not think that is the case. If you want specifics about an update to your airplane I suggest you immediately contact DAI directly in Canada or Austria, reference Mr. McFadzean's letter and make a request for a quote with details.

I believe that in another couple of weeks, after there has been sufficient time for owners to read the reply from Mr. McFadzean and raise issues such as you raise, that a formal reply should be sent to Mr. McFadzean requesting clarification on the issues raised, as well as suggesting a time and location for a face to face meeting with a representative group of owners.
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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by TwinStarScott »

Here’s a quick update on requesting a WAAS upgrade to the 63W boxes:

On Monday (9/23/2019) I called Diamond inquiring about the process for sending in a deposit and was told I was the first to inquire about this upgrade, since the signatories received Scott McFadzean's letter the previous Friday.

In short order, I was referred to the service department. A person in this department soon replied by asking me to verify I was the current owner, as their records indicated the previous owner – a flight school. And if I was a private individual, I would need to submit an “owner / operator form”.

My immediate reply included a copy and paste of the FAA database record for the aircraft in question. Tuesday came and went as I eagerly await receiving this form from DAI – which I will promptly return.

For additional owners also wishing to upgrade their aircraft to WAAS, here is the email address to start the process:

diamondservice@diamondaircraft.com
(and remember to include your aircraft’s serial number)
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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by ememic99 »

Besides giving the ballpark prices (although without necessary transparency in details) Mr. McFadzean's letter is missing key information on aircraft downtime for performing these upgrades. Later on we would also appreciate feedback of factory's ability to process certain numbers of aircrafts in some timeframe. I would not like to get in situation of leaving the aircraft at factory and hoping for the best without hard commitments from DAI (which are usually hard to get).
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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by Colin »

I wish someone would condense this thread into a wiki page and then start a new thread for the ensuing discussion. One of the things that occured to me as I flew a Diamond aircraft across the continent for the 34th time is that Garmin seems to stop short of supplying the software update for an old airframe saying, "DAI is the STC holder, so we can't do anything." Garmin doesn't actually say *what* DAI would provide, but I would love to know those details.

Specifically, it seems that the value of the STC to put a G1000 suite into a DA40 Lycoming airframe might be of little to no value to DAI at this point. Older planes are covered by it regardless of who owns it, correct? So they can still swap parts, stick in a new MFD if they like, even if they no longer hold the STC. As long as the STC exists?

If it is no longer worth anything to them, could a consortium of Diamond owners purchase it for a dollar (preferably Canadian dollar)? And then what would we need to provide Garmin with to get the absolutely latest software that would run on that particular hardware?

Four hour legs are a lot of time to think in a complete vacuum of the proper information. I couldn't think of a reason that someone clever couldn't design a path for all Diamond aircraft to remain as up-to-date as possible on their software. At least the software that will run on their particular hardware. Obviously, eventually you are left behind. I still have an Apple Newton in a box in my garage.

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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by CFIDave »

Lou wrote: Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:58 pm "Of note, Diamond has committed to working with Garmin to provide a further software update to DA40-180 customers in order to support seamless integration of the available ADSB solution from Garmin".

Does this mean a software patch to enable G1000 to access existing WAAS data?
Right now, a GTX345R (with ADS-B In and Out) installed in a DA40-180 requires whatever G1000 software is already installed to be "patched" by a Garmin tech using a laptop -- the reason being that all G1000 software for these legacy G1000 aircraft pre-dated introduction of the GTX345R. All G1000 software installer SD Cards are "missing" an installation option for the GTX345R transponder. So I'm interpreting Diamond's comment to mean that any new G1000 software developed for DA-180 aircraft would likely incorporate a GTX345R installation option, i.e., no more separate software patching with a laptop required.

Separately, there's the issue that current G1000 software for DA40-180 aircraft with WAAS GIA63Ws can't provide a WAAS position source to the GTX345R. Consequently, DA40-180 owners have had to pay $800 more for a version of the GTX345R that contains its own integral WAAS position source, and have also needed to install a 3rd GPS antenna connection going to the transponder. Presumably new legacy G1000 software developed for the DA40-180 would eliminate this requirement.

Unfortunately by the time Diamond releases such new G1000 software for DA40-180 aircraft, US owners will have already installed the more expensive GTX345R and additional or new antenna in order to meet the FAA's January 1, 2020 ADS-B mandate.
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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by ememic99 »

Thanks for this explanation. The owners will need many details like this to clearly see what their options are.
CFIDave wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:36 pm Unfortunately by the time Diamond releases such new G1000 software for DA40-180 aircraft, US owners will have already installed the more expensive GTX345R and additional or new antenna in order to meet the FAA's January 1, 2020 ADS-B mandate.
This is exactly the example of what happens when manufacturer doesn't provide software patches on time. The owners have perfectly capable hardware but due to software issue they can't use it and have to go for alternate and sub-optimal solution.
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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by CFIDave »

Colin wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:12 pmIf it is no longer worth anything to them, could a consortium of Diamond owners purchase it for a dollar (preferably Canadian dollar)? And then what would we need to provide Garmin with to get the absolutely latest software that would run on that particular hardware?
Interesting idea, but a couple of issues:

1. This would be a DA40-only solution. This wouldn't work for the DA42 since the G1000 was not added to it via an STC.

2. Diamond would be reluctant to give up the STC because it would remove much of the incentive for older DA40 owners to want to trade up to a newer DA40 with the latest avionics.

3. Diamond still needs this STC in order to install G1000 NXi into new DA40s.
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Keith M
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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by Keith M »

CFIDave wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:05 pm2. Diamond would be reluctant to give up the STC because it would remove much of the incentive for older DA40 owners to want to trade up to a newer DA40 with the latest avionics.
How much incentive is there to trade up to a newer DA40 to get a software update, once you realise it's the only one you'll get?

A much greater incentive would be updates to the airframe to increase load capacity and reduce wind resistance, and - in the case of the DA40NG - reduce its stall speeds.
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Re: The G1000 project - "The next step"

Post by Colin »

A much greater incentive would be...
The market is so small I wonder if the manufacturers and marketers have any reliable data on this at all. For resale value, continuous upgrades to the software, and an airframe which is tweaked pretty incessantly, should every pilot of means purchase a Cirrus if they are looking at a single-engine plane?

The STC for the G1000 will cover the G1000nxi? Maybe a new one could be written and they could keep that one until they are no longer upgrading or building *those* planes.

I need another cross country to think about the DA42 issue, though. Maybe they could split it off to an STC somehow.
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