I just sent an email to DAI service department to ask about reserving a GIA63W upgrade and if my authorized Diamond Service Center may do the work.
You raise a good point Charles. Because this project only involves swapping out two LRU boxes and a software upgrade. Therefore, to require owners, like you and I, on the West Coast to make a time-consuming and expensive 4,000-mile round trip seems onerous - as this adds approximately another $2,000 to our out of pocket expenses. Especially when that expense could so easily be eliminated, or at least substantially reduced, if only Diamond would allow the job to be performed by an avionics shop(s) more conveniently located for those of us who happen to live out West.
Also, both Diamond and Garmin have stated they expect to support the legacy G1000 system for another ten years. Which would make the cost per year to upgrade to WAAS $2,700 for the privilege to fly LPV approaches ($27,000 divided by ten years). This is likely the best-case scenario ($2,500 to $2,700 per year) given this is used and out of production equipment, with no resale value. In addition, given the weather this time of year and not being equipped with TKS, who on the West Coast is willing to seriously consider such a trip? Realistically it will have to wait another six to eight months.
Finally, two upgrade questions come to mind:
1) what happens if one of the used 63W boxes fails. Will there be a replacement unit readily available, given there is zero inventory for another 5 to 6 weeks?
2) and what happens to the straight 63 units, will the owner be allowed to retain these in the event of a 63W failure and the potential lack of replacement units?
I am guessing here. But Garmin likely has already purchased enough parts to maintain the fleet for ten or more years.
For the GNS line, Garmin was notified by their suppliers when parts would no longer be available. Likely due to manufacturing changes.
Garmin at that time, purchased enough parts to maintain the existing number of sold units for fifteen years (I think that was the number) using the previous ten plus years of production warranty/service requests to determine failure rates.
I am sure it was a little more complex than this; but the basic idea should be apparent.
Therefore I would suspect Garmin has purchased enough parts to maintain the LRU boxes for the next decade.
Thanks Tim. Obviously we'll all find out in time if the much more limited legacy G1000 inventory holds up as well as the GNS buyback program has - as the situation does leave me feeling a little uncomfortable.
For others seeking to upgrade to WAAS, here's a brief recap of my 63W notes:
Friday, September 20, 2019 - Received the official response from Diamond, announcing their G1000 plans.
Monday, September 22, 2019 - Inquired with Customer Service about upgrading to 63W's. Was promptly and politely referred to Customer Support. Customer Support requested an Owner/Operator form be filled out.
Tuesday, September 22, 2019 - Returned the Owner/Operator form via fax and email (PDF attachment). I opted not to provide my SS#.
Thursday, September 26, 2019 - During a phone call with the Director of Maintenance, it was explained the finance department will soon be setting up the process for receiving WAAS 63W deposits and I should be hearing from them soon. In a follow-up email exchange, it appears there is "some special pricing for NXi (phase I) customers, as an incentive to upgrade." Did not inquire further if this pricing is less than the $35,000 quoted price or if $35,000 is the "incentive pricing". Although two additional WAAS related questions have gone unanswered. Finally, today, was also told I was the first to inquire and the first on the list. I then asked about scheduling an October install. Unfortunately, the earliest the used units are anticipated to become available is in November. Being non-TKS equipped, I expressed my concerns about undertaking such a long trip during the cold Wx months. He suggested March as a good month to try for. My reply was May or June would likely involve far fewer Wx delays - based upon my experience during numerous flights to Montana over the years.
Monday, October 7, 2019 - No activity since 26-Sept.
TimS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:25 am
Therefore I would suspect Garmin has purchased enough parts to maintain the LRU boxes for the next decade.
According to what Scott wrote above, it seems that DAI did nothing on this issue, regardless whether Garmin stocked or not enough parts to support GIA63W/64W program. The point is that officially GIA63/63W replacement program doesn’t exist any more.
But if I'm giving up my pair of GIA63Ws to Diamond (worth as much as $20K on the used market that I can't collect), the effective price of the NXi Phase I upgrade to NXi Phase II is $35K + $20K = $55K, and that's ridiculous for an aircraft only 2 years old.
For that kind of money I can simply have the upgrade performed by a Garmin dealer, and sell the GIA63Ws on my own.
From my limited discussions and exchanges with DAI on the subject, I believe the company is sincere about starting this program back up again. It only appears not to be fully organized at this stage. However, the preliminary indications are the initial pricing is likely not realistic to succeed, as several Phase I owners* have shared with me the factory pricing doesn’t leave them feeling the least bit motivated to upgrade to Phase II. Which will clearly make or break the entire official program.
Yet, if I’m understanding a recent post by CFI Dave correctly - he has suggested an alternative upgrade path that completely bypasses the factory only upgrades and will be a much better deal for both NXi and Legacy owners alike.
To which DAN could be used to facilitate connecting NXi phase I owners with non-WAAS owners. Caution: before purchasing a used a pair of 63W’s directly from a NXi Phase I owner, it would be a good idea to check with an avionics shop first. As there might be a technical glitch owners are currently unaware of.
*given this is a small sample size, but so far not even a single NXi phase I owner has posted they're excited about upgrading through the normal channels.
TwinStarScott wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:35 am
However, the preliminary indications are the initial pricing is likely not realistic to succeed, as several Phase I owners* have shared with me the factory pricing doesn’t leave them feeling the least bit motivated to upgrade to Phase II. Which will clearly make or break the entire official program.
*given this is a small sample size, but so far not even a single NXi phase I owner has posted they're excited about upgrading through the normal channels.
Scott
Not only am I not excited about giving $35000 for DAI to then take and sell my old units, but with your worries about having to fly to the factory, I am wondering even if the price does come down to an acceptable level, what does DAI intend to do to owners that don't live in US or Europe?
I did meet someone in the US once who thought Australia was Austria, and he complemented me on my excellent English skills...
Best
David
David
Based in Moorabbin, Australia.
Past Cirrus 20
Past Cirrus 22T
Present Diamond 42-VI
dselder1962 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:26 am
I did meet someone in the US once who thought Australia was Austria, and he complemented me on my excellent English skills...
Sometimes I better understand Austrians speaking English than Australians
I am trying to understand the WAAS upgrade path in EASA context.
On an EASA plane, even if don by Diamond, the STC paperwork has to be purchased from Urbe aero (which is expensive)
Is it the same in the FAA world ? Or could it be done without an stc and associated paperwork ?
I am trying to understand the WAAS upgrade path in EASA context.
On an EASA plane, even if don by Diamond, the STC paperwork has to be purchased from Urbe aero (which is expensive)
Is it the same in the FAA world ? Or could it be done without an stc and associated paperwork ?
Thank you in advance
Best,
Salim
My understanding is that no STC should be required for a GIA63 --> GIA63W WAAS upgrade for N-registered aircraft. As long as the upgraded aircraft utilizes certified Garmin G1000 installation software (available to Garmin dealers via Garmin's website), and the resulting installation still conforms to the aircraft's FAA Type Certificate, this should be very straightforward. I don't understand why the WAAS upgrade would have to be performed by Diamond rather than a Garmin dealer.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Here are some questions I have for Diamond in response to Scott McFadzean's letter to DAN. The numbers refer to the row order of 14 upgrades on the 3rd page of the letter.
If GFC700 equipped (i.e., 2007 DA40XL or some Austro-upgraded DA42NGs), do either of these include a replacement 1040 MFD with VNAV button on bezel (these Legacy G1000 legacy MFDs are no longer being produced; where will they come from?) In years past, WAAS upgrades to aircraft with GFC700s included VNAV functionality and new MFD.
3. DA40 - non-G1000 (Steam Gauge) or DA40 G1000 legacy non-WAAS: Full Upgrade to G1000 NXi, includes WAAS (GIA64W) ADS-B $185,000
Does "Full Upgrade" = NXi Phase II? Does this include GFC700 upgrade or is there software available for NXi Phase II to work with retained KAP-140 autopilots? 2007 DA40 XL (non-WAAS) already has GFC700, so is there a different price for that aircraft?
4. DA40 - G1000 Legacy/WAAS: Partial upgrade to NXi $65,000
Does "Partial Upgrade" = NXi Phase I with just the PFD/MFD replaced? If so, why does Diamond charge $65K for this when Textron charges only $29K for the same thing for their Cessna 172/182/206 and Bonanza/Baron?
5. DA62 - G1000 Legacy (early Serial Numbers): Upgrade to NXi Phase I - not exchanging the GIA63Ws $45,000
Does this also include additional wiring and installation of heated static ports and Aux tank fuel gauges that have previously been included in DA62 NXi Phase I?
6. DA62 - G1000 NXi/Phase I: Upgrade to NXi Phase II - includes exchanging the GIA64Ws $35,000
Does Diamond get to keep the GIA63Ws (worth as much as $20K) as part of this upgrade? If so, the effective upgrade cost is more like $55K for aircraft that are at most 2 years old. $35K would seem to more than cover the cost of two GIA64Ws, GEA71B, and new audio panel, allowing customers to keep GIA63Ws (or obtain trade-in credit from Diamond).
7. DA40/42/42NG/DA62 - G1000 legacy or NXi: GTX345R ADS-B In and Out $15,000
8. DA40/42/42NG/DA62 - G1000 legacy or NXi: GTX335R ADS-B In only. $13,000
Why so expensive? Most maintenance shops have been charging around $8K for GTX345R installation in DA40s/DA42s, and that typically includes the higher-priced GTX345R with integral WAAS position source and 3rd GPS antenna connection. This upgrade should be even less expensive for DA42NG/-VI or DA62 Legacy (GDU 15.XX) or NXi aircraft (with GDU 20.XX software) that can utilize GIA63W as WAAS position source without the need for a 3rd GPS antenna.
9. DA40 - non G1000: Various solutions/STC: Starting at $2995 plus installation costs
I presume this is for ADS-B to be added?
10. DA42 - legacy non-WAAS airplanes only: Full upgrade to G1000 NXi, includes WAAS (GIA64W), ADS-B. This is a full upgrade to NXi Phase II $185,000
Does this include GFC700 upgrade or is there software available for NXi Phase II to work with retained KAP-140 autopilots? Some upgraded NGs without WAAS already have GFC700, so is there a different price for that aircraft?
11. DA42NG: Partial upgrade to G1000 NXi incl. GTX345R for ADS-B $70,000
Does "Partial Upgrade" = NXi Phase I with just the PFD/MFD replaced? If so, why does Diamond charge $70K for this when Textron charges only $29K for the same thing for their Cessna 172/182/206 and Bonanza/Baron?
12. DA42NG Phase I (presume you really mean NXi Phase I for DA42-VI): Full upgrade to G1000 NXi phase II $35,000
Does Diamond get to keep the GIA63Ws (worth as much as $20K) as part of this upgrade? If so, the effective upgrade cost is more like $55K for aircraft that are at most 2 years old. $35K would seem to more than cover the cost of two GIA64Ws, GEA71B, and new audio panel, allowing customers to keep GIA63Ws (or obtain trade-in credit from Diamond).
