Sitting on a heap of gold [was: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...]
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Sitting on a heap of gold [was: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...]
[Moderator note: split topic from this original thread]
Hmmm... PIREP from the sidelines. This thread is remarkably negative. I hope Diamond are reading AND someone in China cares.
Over the years in business I have come up with this metaphor about companies that lose their vision and wonder what to do next.
I say "sitting on a heap of gold and desperately looking around for some silver".
Any tech company will tell you how they make real money: by selling to their CAPTIVE customer base.
Diamond have a ready customer base who are almost religious about their aircraft.
They could make TONS of profit by listening and delivering. No free lunch - just great, honest customer service for a fair price.
Dear DAI, here some gold in no particular order
a $ 200 DA40 cabin air vent silencer,
a $ 5000 "non-corking" nose wheel fork that does not look like it was designed by a 5 year old and requires a fairing the size of a Zeppelin Hindenburg ( hint: go look at cirrus or columbia)
a $ 5'000 heated prop option/upgrade.
a $ 5'000 carbon fiber tailplane to fix W&B...
a $ 40'000 "high DA" engine upgrade with a certain supercharger...
a $ 3'000 "my wife is not a pilot" removable RH side stick upgrade,
a set of reclining seat backs for $ 5'000, plus $ 3'000 for seat ventilation
a (enter crazy price here ) splendid retrofit leather interior, shipped to your shop.
a $ 1'000 hand stitched leather center stick
a $ 0 tee shirt that says "My wife loves Diamonds, I bought her this."
a $ 0 t-shirt that says - "My plane is my parachute"
a $ 600 a year "G1000 subscription"
a $ 40'000 WAAS upgrade (give Garmin $ 1 million, restart production of GIA 63W, make 1 million in gross margin)
a $ 6'000 Beringer brake upgrade complete with a suitable set of bragging stripes for the fairings.
a $ 10'000 "high performance main landing gear" package with composite blades, proper fairings and 25 lbs more useful.
aerodynamic uogrades for the 42 TDI, and a "upgrade at overhaul" scimitar prop option...
a $ 500 carry along set of tools, metric and US.
.
And as a closing comment: you know you're a DAN pilot when you keep coming back here long after you're gone, because it feels like family...
Hmmm... PIREP from the sidelines. This thread is remarkably negative. I hope Diamond are reading AND someone in China cares.
Over the years in business I have come up with this metaphor about companies that lose their vision and wonder what to do next.
I say "sitting on a heap of gold and desperately looking around for some silver".
Any tech company will tell you how they make real money: by selling to their CAPTIVE customer base.
Diamond have a ready customer base who are almost religious about their aircraft.
They could make TONS of profit by listening and delivering. No free lunch - just great, honest customer service for a fair price.
Dear DAI, here some gold in no particular order
a $ 200 DA40 cabin air vent silencer,
a $ 5000 "non-corking" nose wheel fork that does not look like it was designed by a 5 year old and requires a fairing the size of a Zeppelin Hindenburg ( hint: go look at cirrus or columbia)
a $ 5'000 heated prop option/upgrade.
a $ 5'000 carbon fiber tailplane to fix W&B...
a $ 40'000 "high DA" engine upgrade with a certain supercharger...
a $ 3'000 "my wife is not a pilot" removable RH side stick upgrade,
a set of reclining seat backs for $ 5'000, plus $ 3'000 for seat ventilation
a (enter crazy price here ) splendid retrofit leather interior, shipped to your shop.
a $ 1'000 hand stitched leather center stick
a $ 0 tee shirt that says "My wife loves Diamonds, I bought her this."
a $ 0 t-shirt that says - "My plane is my parachute"
a $ 600 a year "G1000 subscription"
a $ 40'000 WAAS upgrade (give Garmin $ 1 million, restart production of GIA 63W, make 1 million in gross margin)
a $ 6'000 Beringer brake upgrade complete with a suitable set of bragging stripes for the fairings.
a $ 10'000 "high performance main landing gear" package with composite blades, proper fairings and 25 lbs more useful.
aerodynamic uogrades for the 42 TDI, and a "upgrade at overhaul" scimitar prop option...
a $ 500 carry along set of tools, metric and US.
.
And as a closing comment: you know you're a DAN pilot when you keep coming back here long after you're gone, because it feels like family...
- ememic99
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- Colin
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Re: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...
I did this. I think it was more like $6k. It's an STC for the DA42 and the guy at the factory said he didn't know of any reason it couldn't be done to a DA40.a $ 3,000 "my wife is not a pilot" removable RH side stick upgrade,
They are more like $15k, no ventilation option yet.a set of reclining seat backs for $ 5,000, plus $ 3,000 for seat ventilation
It was $10k or $12k, I don't remember. It's an STC.a $ 6'000 Beringer brake upgrade complete with a suitable set of bragging stripes for the fairings.
Man, I would love that.a $ 500 carry along set of tools, metric and US.
The page for my plane has links to the upgrades I did so far.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
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Re: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...
Thanks Emir, and Colin for bringing real world data into this
The prices I slapped on the "gold" items were just there as placeholders !
Given the respectable size of the customer base I suppose DAI will do their financial homework and add some "goodwill value" into the equation to pick the price point. Sometimes giving away a little thing (like the $200 vent silencer) can make the happy customer literally sell a plane for you. Happy customers are the best plane salespeople I know.
This said I do have another vision of how DAI could make crazy money while taking over the owner-flown market.
A trade-in program whereby you bring in you DA40 and fly away in a spanking new $ 500K DA41.
The DA40s then get stripped down and rebuilt as DA40 trainers with adequate avionics and sold for a very compelling price to flight schools.
What? The DA41 does not exist? Wait! I am certain I just saw one, it was beautiful in silver and dark grey metallic, there were 4 people on board all smiling and the luggage compartment was full. I loved the uplifted wing tips and fully integrated LED lights...
It took off right in front of us and looked like it had tons of supercharged power. And then I woke up...
The prices I slapped on the "gold" items were just there as placeholders !
Given the respectable size of the customer base I suppose DAI will do their financial homework and add some "goodwill value" into the equation to pick the price point. Sometimes giving away a little thing (like the $200 vent silencer) can make the happy customer literally sell a plane for you. Happy customers are the best plane salespeople I know.
This said I do have another vision of how DAI could make crazy money while taking over the owner-flown market.
A trade-in program whereby you bring in you DA40 and fly away in a spanking new $ 500K DA41.
The DA40s then get stripped down and rebuilt as DA40 trainers with adequate avionics and sold for a very compelling price to flight schools.
What? The DA41 does not exist? Wait! I am certain I just saw one, it was beautiful in silver and dark grey metallic, there were 4 people on board all smiling and the luggage compartment was full. I loved the uplifted wing tips and fully integrated LED lights...
It took off right in front of us and looked like it had tons of supercharged power. And then I woke up...
- AndrewM
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Re: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...
Antoine, the model of stripping and selling good trainer planes I am sure is a model that could work, however I have heard time and time and time again that flight schools (and especially their students) would love DA40's, however the unreliable times to get parts make them unviable trainer fleet planes, as they spend too much time on the ground, vs Cessna where parts are readily available.
So... Diamond would need to really fix that issue, and prove they can be reliable.
I think the new Diamond CEO has a magnificent opportunity ahead.The product is just great, but the organizational culture seemingly needs to become much more customer and execution focussed. There are some really simple things that could be done (many of which outlined on this forum), which would not cost Diamond a lot of money, organizational resources or time to implement, that would have significant return on investment financial outcomes, that I am sure they new Chinese owners would reap the financial benefits from.
In my view, there is a cultural issue within the company that needs to be fixed. "Voice of Customer" does not seem to matter and certainly from my view is not really acted upon. Again, just my view and certainly not meaning to be negative in any manner, but arguably the largest and most important general aviation show just came and went, and the new CEO missed a really nice, easy and cheap opportunity to host a dinner or some other event with owners / prospective owners, outline his vision for the future, mingle with owners and listen to feedback, build some relationships and so on. Heck... Diamond could have split the costs with Premier and LifeStyle Aviation to host some form of customer event to update on the DA42, 62, provide an update on the DA50 and so on... BTW, the Cirrus event was really good. And all their key staff were there, mingling with customers and potential customers.
So... Diamond would need to really fix that issue, and prove they can be reliable.
I think the new Diamond CEO has a magnificent opportunity ahead.The product is just great, but the organizational culture seemingly needs to become much more customer and execution focussed. There are some really simple things that could be done (many of which outlined on this forum), which would not cost Diamond a lot of money, organizational resources or time to implement, that would have significant return on investment financial outcomes, that I am sure they new Chinese owners would reap the financial benefits from.
In my view, there is a cultural issue within the company that needs to be fixed. "Voice of Customer" does not seem to matter and certainly from my view is not really acted upon. Again, just my view and certainly not meaning to be negative in any manner, but arguably the largest and most important general aviation show just came and went, and the new CEO missed a really nice, easy and cheap opportunity to host a dinner or some other event with owners / prospective owners, outline his vision for the future, mingle with owners and listen to feedback, build some relationships and so on. Heck... Diamond could have split the costs with Premier and LifeStyle Aviation to host some form of customer event to update on the DA42, 62, provide an update on the DA50 and so on... BTW, the Cirrus event was really good. And all their key staff were there, mingling with customers and potential customers.
- CFIDave
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Re: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...
Antoine:
Your DA41 already exists in the form of the DA50:
Room and carrying capacity for 4 full sized adults. The same forgiving airfoil as all Diamonds. Enough power and room to incorporate FIKI deice and air conditioning. Turbocharging for flying at higher altitudes...it was originally called the SuperStar back in 2007 for a reason: as the follow-on to the DA40 Star.
You really are dreaming if you think all of the above can be retrofitted to the smaller DA40 airframe.
Your DA41 already exists in the form of the DA50:
Room and carrying capacity for 4 full sized adults. The same forgiving airfoil as all Diamonds. Enough power and room to incorporate FIKI deice and air conditioning. Turbocharging for flying at higher altitudes...it was originally called the SuperStar back in 2007 for a reason: as the follow-on to the DA40 Star.
You really are dreaming if you think all of the above can be retrofitted to the smaller DA40 airframe.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- ememic99
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Re: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...
And it’s late something like 12 years, even with turboprop version announced few years ago, now still pretty far from production. And who knows at what price. I don’t think that anyone can sell 4/5 seats touring SEP without parachute in any number close to Cirrus. In other words, I don’t think DA50 has any future. I would like to be wrong because I would like every Diamond aircraft to be success but I somehow doubt.CFIDave wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 2:03 pm Antoine:
Your DA41 already exists in the form of the DA50:
Room and carrying capacity for 4 full sized adults. The same forgiving airfoil as all Diamonds. Enough power and room to incorporate FIKI deice and air conditioning. Turbocharging for flying at higher altitudes...it was originally called the SuperStar back in 2007 for a reason: as the follow-on to the DA40 Star.
You really are dreaming if you think all of the above can be retrofitted to the smaller DA40 airframe.
- YCCA
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Re: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...
Stuff about the flight school and planes sitting is dead on.. I waited 3 weeks for an oil temp gauge and just under a month for an alternator bracket for a DA-20. Diamond is pitiful to be quite honest. I mean those are not odd ball parts.. The parts distribution guy told me it’s gotten worse since the Chinese have taken over.. But I guess when you think like a Commie, you get what you get when you get it and you will be happy.. The beatings will continue until moral improvesAndrewM wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:56 pm Antoine, the model of stripping and selling good trainer planes I am sure is a model that could work, however I have heard time and time and time again that flight schools (and especially their students) would love DA40's, however the unreliable times to get parts make them unviable trainer fleet planes, as they spend too much time on the ground, vs Cessna where parts are readily available.
So... Diamond would need to really fix that issue, and prove they can be reliable.
I think the new Diamond CEO has a magnificent opportunity ahead.The product is just great, but the organizational culture seemingly needs to become much more customer and execution focussed. There are some really simple things that could be done (many of which outlined on this forum), which would not cost Diamond a lot of money, organizational resources or time to implement, that would have significant return on investment financial outcomes, that I am sure they new Chinese owners would reap the financial benefits from.
In my view, there is a cultural issue within the company that needs to be fixed. "Voice of Customer" does not seem to matter and certainly from my view is not really acted upon. Again, just my view and certainly not meaning to be negative in any manner, but arguably the largest and most important general aviation show just came and went, and the new CEO missed a really nice, easy and cheap opportunity to host a dinner or some other event with owners / prospective owners, outline his vision for the future, mingle with owners and listen to feedback, build some relationships and so on. Heck... Diamond could have split the costs with Premier and LifeStyle Aviation to host some form of customer event to update on the DA42, 62, provide an update on the DA50 and so on... BTW, the Cirrus event was really good. And all their key staff were there, mingling with customers and potential customers.
- RMarkSampson
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Re: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...
I really enjoy Diamond Aviators Net because you see issues from multiple perspectives. Here are the my Hangar Talking truths as I see.
DAI builds really nice airplanes. Perfect? No, but they have also built a fairly loyal customer base which is a testament to their quality aircraft. Yes, it is in their best interest to maintain that loyal customer base, but they will ultimately focus on JOB ONE which is selling NEW AIRPLANES. Rightly so, their focus gets blurry after the warranty. Why, because they focus on selling new aircraft... I will never complain about DAI because, in my opinion, they have exceeded their mission by having a support staff that can still give quality guidance to owners years and years beyond when their warranty expired. Remember when you go into a car dealership for service on your car after the warranty has expired - you are dealing with third-party entities that have created their business by providing a service beyond what the original car manufacturer is providing. Even if your car is still under warranty, the manufacturer is not fixing your car, a third-party is. The manufacturer is just paying the bill.
I buy new cars but I don't buy new aircraft. However, I really like those Diamond pilots that buy new Diamond Aircraft because on the back side of that sale is where many Diamond Pilots like me live - the aftermarket where we find and buy a quality used Diamond that has plenty of life left in her. My Diamond is 20 years old this year. I am not in the market for a new aircraft simply because I have too many other things that contribute more to my quality of life than a factory-fresh aircraft. Flying is great - but I'm never going to win the lottery where all my dreams come true.
I still get DAI support for most parts which is nice but I also expect those parts will become increasingly expensive. Also, because DAI focuses on selling new aircraft I will not expect them to pop out Service Bulletin after Service Bulletin to provide their 20 year old aircraft a path to easy upgrades. Just as other aircraft owners of non-Diamond aircraft who have kept their birds flying increasingly rely on non-manufacturer companies to keep them airworthy and upgraded. There are companies out there that will service that market - they simply need to have a population of customers that allow them to make money doing it.
And this is where I will come back and say great things about the Diamond Aviators Net forums. It allows Diamond Pilots/owners from around the world to come together and run down a multitude of different paths to keep their Diamond Aircraft flying, and occasionally upgraded - without the need to go find another aircraft to buy. Sometimes buying a new aircraft is the right path, but many times it is not...
DAI builds really nice airplanes. Perfect? No, but they have also built a fairly loyal customer base which is a testament to their quality aircraft. Yes, it is in their best interest to maintain that loyal customer base, but they will ultimately focus on JOB ONE which is selling NEW AIRPLANES. Rightly so, their focus gets blurry after the warranty. Why, because they focus on selling new aircraft... I will never complain about DAI because, in my opinion, they have exceeded their mission by having a support staff that can still give quality guidance to owners years and years beyond when their warranty expired. Remember when you go into a car dealership for service on your car after the warranty has expired - you are dealing with third-party entities that have created their business by providing a service beyond what the original car manufacturer is providing. Even if your car is still under warranty, the manufacturer is not fixing your car, a third-party is. The manufacturer is just paying the bill.
I buy new cars but I don't buy new aircraft. However, I really like those Diamond pilots that buy new Diamond Aircraft because on the back side of that sale is where many Diamond Pilots like me live - the aftermarket where we find and buy a quality used Diamond that has plenty of life left in her. My Diamond is 20 years old this year. I am not in the market for a new aircraft simply because I have too many other things that contribute more to my quality of life than a factory-fresh aircraft. Flying is great - but I'm never going to win the lottery where all my dreams come true.
I still get DAI support for most parts which is nice but I also expect those parts will become increasingly expensive. Also, because DAI focuses on selling new aircraft I will not expect them to pop out Service Bulletin after Service Bulletin to provide their 20 year old aircraft a path to easy upgrades. Just as other aircraft owners of non-Diamond aircraft who have kept their birds flying increasingly rely on non-manufacturer companies to keep them airworthy and upgraded. There are companies out there that will service that market - they simply need to have a population of customers that allow them to make money doing it.
And this is where I will come back and say great things about the Diamond Aviators Net forums. It allows Diamond Pilots/owners from around the world to come together and run down a multitude of different paths to keep their Diamond Aircraft flying, and occasionally upgraded - without the need to go find another aircraft to buy. Sometimes buying a new aircraft is the right path, but many times it is not...
- ememic99
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Re: You Know You're a Diamond Pilot When ...
Really? How? Can you give an example? You’re probably aware of many opposite cases where the support was below mandatory level defined within warranty period, like complete fiasco with Thielert or charging shipping for replacement parts within warranty. I’m not for bashing DAI but let’s not write fairytales how great their support is.RMarkSampson wrote: ↑Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:57 pm I will never complain about DAI because, in my opinion, they have exceeded their mission by having a support staff that can still give quality guidance to owners years and years beyond when their warranty expired.