G1000NXi - The Missing Features

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Colin
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by Colin »

I cannot commit seven figures to a new plane until there is a better policy statement and, more importantly, action from Diamond.

And I cannot recommend buying a new Diamond to anyone until I see the same things. Whenever someone asks me about the planes, I now mention the software issue. When they ask if it is the same in a Cirrus I answer honestly that it is not.

Mooney had a JetA trainer flying. They had a pile of Chinese money. I think the regulatory hurdles really sobered them (ask me how to make a small fortune in aviation), and they lost their nerve. Cirrus obviously didn't and I predict they will sell hundreds of those little jets in China. Will Diamond lose their nerve? Will they abandon their English-speaking and European customers? Our complaints will never reach their market in China, so maybe we are just static to them at this point.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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ememic99
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by ememic99 »

AndrewM wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:04 pm How many Cirrus owners looking to upgrade or go to something newer will convert to Diamond?
None.
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dselder1962
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by dselder1962 »

AndrewM wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:04 pm Looking on the COPA forum, I do not see any degree of these issues being mentioned.

I guess the ultimate acid test will be when the DA50 is launched. How many Cirrus owners looking to upgrade or go to something newer will convert to Diamond?
Andrew
I did. I came to Diamond 42-VI via a 22T. I do consider it an upgrade. It at least has (two) engines that actually work. I had to have all 6 cylinders replaced after 400 hours, and boy did Cirrus kick and scream trying to get out of warranty replacement. It cost me a fortune with all the stuff they didn't cover, but also I had to rent a plane while mine was on the ground going nowhere.
So while it was nice to have all the bells and whistles in the software it is no bloody use if the engine ain't going round.
As to customer support, I do realise it is different in the US, but in Australia the local support is worse than useless.
So I fixed it and sold it and while these software issues do concern me, I have had great reliability from this plane so far.
And as to COPA, I am still a member as it is a good source for safety related information, but my goodness I had to wear my flame suit whenever I pointed out the problems I had. It is not meant to be a Cirrus fanboy club but gee there are a lot of people there that shout you down when you raise issues, so I would take COPA with a pinch of salt.
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by ememic99 »

dselder1962 wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:40 am
AndrewM wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:04 pm Looking on the COPA forum, I do not see any degree of these issues being mentioned.

I guess the ultimate acid test will be when the DA50 is launched. How many Cirrus owners looking to upgrade or go to something newer will convert to Diamond?
Andrew
I did. I came to Diamond 42-VI via a 22T. I do consider it an upgrade. It at least has (two) engines that actually work. I had to have all 6 cylinders replaced after 400 hours, and boy did Cirrus kick and scream trying to get out of warranty replacement. It cost me a fortune with all the stuff they didn't cover, but also I had to rent a plane while mine was on the ground going nowhere.
So while it was nice to have all the bells and whistles in the software it is no bloody use if the engine ain't going round.
As to customer support, I do realise it is different in the US, but in Australia the local support is worse than useless.
So I fixed it and sold it and while these software issues do concern me, I have had great reliability from this plane so far.
And as to COPA, I am still a member as it is a good source for safety related information, but my goodness I had to wear my flame suit whenever I pointed out the problems I had. It is not meant to be a Cirrus fanboy club but gee there are a lot of people there that shout you down when you raise issues, so I would take COPA with a pinch of salt.
Cheers

David
Thanks for sharing this. I sometimes forget why I picked up DA42 :) but it doesn't mean that DAI shouldn't be much much better in supporting existing customers than they're now.
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by dselder1962 »

ememic99 wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:19 am

Thanks for sharing this. I sometimes forget why I picked up DA42 :) but it doesn't mean that DAI shouldn't be much much better in supporting existing customers than they're now.
Emir
I completely agree with you. That was one of the main points I tried to make to Amila and Scott when I met with them at the Avalon Airshow in Oz. They seemed to take it on board, but to be honest there is not much hard evidence of an improvement as yet.
I live in hope and nothing would make me happier if I could report back to all the Cirrus drivers that yes there is competition in town.
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by AndrewM »

dselder1962 wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:40 am
Andrew
I did. I came to Diamond 42-VI via a 22T. I do consider it an upgrade.
David,

This is exactly my point... if Diamond were to be more responsive on the software and also spare parts availability, then geez could they have a sensational business. Until then, in my view people like you will be outliers. I would like it to be the other way around, as I think we all would.
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by chili4way »

I would like to know what hoops Transport Canada (TC) makes Diamond jump through to "certify" software updates to the G1000 series and whether or not there are different levels of requirements for different categories of updates (or upgrades). If TC certification requirements treat "enabling 3D audio" the same as "a new GFC700 control algorithm" (because you know, MCAS!!), then no wonder Diamond seldom releases incremental software updates. Add in a hardware upgrade (even one that's been proven on other Diamond models and manufacturers) and all bets are off. And Diamond has to compete with Bombardier for TC's limited resources, time and attention. I'd love to know more specifics about the certification hoops so I could assess if TC is a "reason" or an "excuse".
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by ememic99 »

I don't think the situation is that complicated. I believe the answer is much simpler: new owners cashed out pile of money and they want ROI. That's why all efforts are focused to new sales (I can't remember DAI people travelling around the world so intensively in the past) and thus customer support in post-sales and R&D have to suffer. Old customers have to suffer more :)
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by chili4way »

Emir, you may be right, particularly if one believes there never can be (nor should be) ROI from supporting customers. I don't subscribe to this point of view, so I'm interested in understanding the things that unnecessarily increase the cost of support, i.e. certification costs of updates (SW) and upgrades (HW).

I'm happy that Diamond is working to sell more new planes, lest they become the next Mooney (too soon?). Diamond's leadership in Diesel piston aircraft provides opportunities in parts of the world with growing GA & training needs and lower, more expensive access to 100 LL.

Of course, new sales generate increased demand for customer support. And customer support is a consideration in new plane purchasing decisions. Diamond needs to solve this problem! I don't think the answer is as simple as you suggest. It's due to some combination of technical, operational, economic, and relational issues. Finding and resolving the bottlenecks in the right order is necessary to solve the problem.

My concern about TC certification requirements is but one piece of the puzzle. If it costs Diamond as much to certify a software update as it does to certify a new avionics system or new airframe, no wonder we are not seeing any updates - at any (reasonable) price.
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Re: G1000NXi - The Missing Features

Post by ememic99 »

chili4way wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:36 pm If it costs Diamond as much to certify a software update as it does to certify a new avionics system or new airframe, no wonder we are not seeing any updates - at any (reasonable) price.
I’m pretty sure it doesn’t but I don’t know if we’ll ever get transparent info having in mind DAI’s willing (or lack of it) to talk to owners.
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