Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

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blsewardjr
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by blsewardjr »

One reason that the GFC500 may not be on even the planned list for the DA40 is that it requires the G5 attitude indicator as well, not as a backup but as a primary instrument. The G5 is not certified for DA40s as a primary instrument except for those that are VFR only. Without the G5, the only Garmin autopilot that could be used would be the higher end G600. Even so, I suspect Garmin, like STEC, would not commit to an STC process for a fairly rare aircraft like the DA40 steam gauge unless there is demonstrated (i.e., money) customer interest.
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
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blsewardjr
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by blsewardjr »

Scott- There previously have been a couple of threads where DA40 Non-G1000 owners have discussed the STEC AP. In my opinion, the big issue is price. $20K for the unit and $10K to install for a total of $30K seems simply too much for many owners of $100-160K aircraft to consider when the KAP140 "works." I would consider it, even at that price, because I'd like a more reliable, better performing autopilot with new features such as IAS climb mode, envelope protection and go around capability. That said, I admit that in my current use of the DA40 as a "light IFR" aircraft, those things are not critical. The value proposition for the DA42, as a much more "all weather aircraft" (FIKI, turbo-charged, etc.) is different. Bernie
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
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Quinn1
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by Quinn1 »

Can someone explain what “certified autopilot option confirmed” means for a 2003 DA40? And, how much an autopilot would cost for this plane? Thanks
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CFIDave
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by CFIDave »

An autopilot for a DA40 must be built for certified aircraft, although EAA and others have started getting FAA approval for a few non-TSO'ed systems. Unfortunately it means you can't use most of the cheaper autopilots designed for homebuilts in a 2003 DA40.
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marcuso
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by marcuso »

Is there any reason that a Dynon Skyview replacement for G1000 is not being discussed? It includes autopilot built in and servos cost $750 each.

Here is an estimated cost summary for Cessna (about $35,000 installed):
https://www.dynoncertified.com/pdfs/Ces ... -sheet.pdf

In October, I asked about the possibility of an AML for the DA-40. Here is the response I received:
Unfortunately our AML does not cover the DA40 at this time, our list is limited to single engine piston-powered aircraft of non-composite construction. We are still in the process of approving our first twin-engine certified model, and there is additional testing process required for composite constructed aircraft that we have not yet pursued with the FAA.

We do plan on having products available for the Diamond aircraft, but that is still likely more than a year away at the earliest.
It seems like a nice replacement option for those that are concerned with the future of their G1000s. Perhaps a number of order commitments could get the timeline moved forward.
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by TwinStarScott »

Earlier this month, a fellow Air Park resident and I were invited to tour the Dynon factory. Their President Robert Hamilton graciously spent several hours with us and we found their manufacturing facility both fascinating and impressive. Afterwards, during lunch, the subject of an integrated avionics solution by Dynon was discussed.

While there isn't much more that I can add to what you quoted from Dynon, Marcus, I'm hoping there will eventually be a legacy G1000 alternative to the vastly overpriced NXi upgrade and before the legacy G1000 becomes obsolete sometime in the next ten years.

Please do NOT contact Dynon about a G1000 alternative, as this is a concern of their president - becoming swamped with phone calls on this subject.

Instead, I'd like to suggest a sign-up sheet be started (using google docs), which would include both the IO-360 DA40 and TDI DA42. Any volunteers to set this up? If yes, let’s start a brand-new thread called something like “The Dynon Sign-Up Sheet - The Glass Panel Alternative”.

Should there be a large response, the sign-up sheet could then be presented to Dynon for their consideration.

Obviously, if Dynon should ever decide to offer a glass panel package for composite airframes, Cirrus, with their higher production numbers, would clearly be the more lucrative airframe for Dynon to first target. However, since Cirrus owners have enjoyed superior OEM G1000 support, Diamond owners are more highly motivated to switch avionics companies. At the very least, we could help improve our chances of getting Dynon’s attention by demonstrating our interest with a large percentage of owners signing up.
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Rich
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by Rich »

FWIW, Robert Hamilton used to be my partner in N40XE: 2002-2010.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by TwinStarScott »

Yes, Rich, Robert mentioned your name to me on several occasions that day. While telling the story of changing the N number of your "40" to N40XE - as well as how much he enjoyed flying the DA40. Once again proving “it’s a small world”, especially when it comes to aviation.

And while you know Robert much better than I ever will, he certainly made a big impression with me. One example of many is that he generously responded to an email on a major holiday and for the benefit of Diamond owners / DAN members.

Now all we need to do now as DAN members is make the most of this unique opportunity, by getting this sign-up sheet going. Any takers?
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TwinStarScott
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by TwinStarScott »

Since posting the above nearly a week ago, the silence has been deafening. With not even a single volunteer stepping forward to help send a clear message of interest for an upgrade alternative to the extremely expensive Garmin NXi/GFC700. Which will very likely only further encourage Dynon to favor solutions for Cirrus aircraft first.

Bottom line: advantage Cirrus - again. Only this time, Diamond owners will only have themselves to blame and simply because of our own apathetic attitude.

On an autopilot note related to technique, recently heard again on the Aviation News podcast:

when experiencing turbulence during cruise, Max will enable the ROL mode and set the VS to 0 FPM. He goes on to add, this combination puts less stress on the airframe, while keeping the airplane relatively on course for a fairly "long" time. I would imagine one could briefly enable the HDG mode, depending upon the severity and duration of the turbulence.

Will have to experiment with this in VFR conditions first and not while flying on an instrument flight plan. It would be great to hear feedback from others who already use this practice or report back after experimenting with this method. In the past, my rule of thumb has always been to immediately disengage the A/P after the first few bumps of turbulence.
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Colin
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Re: Autopilots are the answer, not the problem...

Post by Colin »

With the KAP140 my rule was to grab it and fly my hand after those first few bumps. The GFC700 is so much better I have had it fly right through stuff. The servos are more powerful and being "fully digital" appears to mean it is able to react more quickly. In real bumps hand flying is still smoother for the passengers because I seem to be able to find a rhythm and anticipate and I'm also allowed to deviate on altitude and heading in a way the autopilot (obviously) can't. So I can ride the bumps when necessary.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
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