Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

The ramblings of our community of aviators.

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
Charles K
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:46 pm
First Name: Charles
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N5WU
Airports: KCCR
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by Charles K »

Since I have a 2004 first year G1000 DA40 - if we get to the point where there is no support for my G1000 - it comes out and in goes everything that is STC'd for the steam gauge DA40 - which is quite an assortment.

Why am I confident I can do that - well because the G1000 was not a part of my DA40's type certificate. On paper I own a steam guage DA40 that had the G1000 put in by the factory on an STC. In by STC means it can come out :).
Charles
KCCR Based
N5WU - 2004 G1000 DA40 40.400, GTX345R ADS-B, WAAS Upgraded in 2021 via Diamond Upgrade Program
IFR and ME Rated - Advanced Ground Instructor Rated
User avatar
dant
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 274
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:45 am
First Name: Dan
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N787DM
Airports: KPAE
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by dant »

On paper I own a steam guage DA40 that had the G1000 put in by the factory on an STC
I guess technically all of us with g1000 da40s do, so that's a good thing to realize and appreciate. I feel like that'd be a pretty penny and quite an undertaking though. Feels like that guy on reddit who refurbished that old twin turboprop!
User avatar
Charles K
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:46 pm
First Name: Charles
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N5WU
Airports: KCCR
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by Charles K »

Unfortunately somewhere a bit later on like 2007ish - though I am not sure of the year - the G1000 became a part of the type certificate.

If you look at your airframe logs you will see if yours was put in via STC.
Garmin G1000 STC in Logbook.png
I think the original DA40-180 with G1000 would likely be like mine. This is the entry in my logbook and in another post I shared the STC installation parts list which I had to locate to determine which EGT/CHT probes I needed. The parts catalog for my serial number 40.400 on the Diamond site shows all steam gauge panel and parts.
I guess technically all of us with g1000 da40s do, so that's a good thing to realize and appreciate. I feel like that'd be a pretty penny and quite an undertaking though. Feels like that guy on reddit who refurbished that old twin turboprop!
Charles
KCCR Based
N5WU - 2004 G1000 DA40 40.400, GTX345R ADS-B, WAAS Upgraded in 2021 via Diamond Upgrade Program
IFR and ME Rated - Advanced Ground Instructor Rated
User avatar
dant
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 274
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:45 am
First Name: Dan
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N787DM
Airports: KPAE
Has thanked: 49 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by dant »

Huh that's interesting. I assumed since all the available POHs don't have the G1000 that they were all STC'd.

As a data point, mine is 2008, and the first entry in the engineering log lists the G1000 installed as per FAA STC No SA01254WI.
User avatar
pietromarx
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
First Name: Peter
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: NZZZ
Airports: KWHP
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 156 times

Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by pietromarx »

Methinks you are on to something here: My DA40 manufactured in November 2011 has the same "the following ... (G1000, etc.) ... is incorporated by STC." I know that the STC ownership moved from Austria to Canada, but I don't think the G1000 ever became part of the type certificate for the DA40.

I admit that this fills me with both interest and a bit of anticipated horror. There are other issues such as do we have to replace the autopilot or is there an STC'd version that works with existing servos?

This begins to feel like one of those big King Air / Citation / whatever updates which toss a ton of old stuff and replaces it with solid state stuff. The G1000 (and NXi, sorry, folks) are very large and heavy installations compared with what's possible today. I refer us back to what we see happening over on the personal compute platforms.
User avatar
Colin
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2006
Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
First Name: Colin
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: N972RD
Airports: KFHR
Has thanked: 319 times
Been thanked: 527 times

Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by Colin »

I wonder what an STC to strip the G1000 out of the DA42 would cost.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
User avatar
Boatguy
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1827
Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:48 am
First Name: Russ
Aircraft Type: DA62
Aircraft Registration: N962M
Airports: KSTS
Has thanked: 1327 times
Been thanked: 1163 times

Re: Would you buy another DA XX?

Post by Boatguy »

Colin wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 12:58 am I wonder what an STC to strip the G1000 out of the DA42 would cost.
Could the moderators split this into a separate thread as it's an important discussion, but not responsive to the OP's question.

I think if the G1000 is only included by STC, and is not part of the TC, then it's entirely optional and can be replaced with other equipment for which the DA40 is on the AML.

My own 2018 DA40NG says the G1000NXi is there as a result of MÄM 40-1007. I assume, but may be wrong, that the "Mandatory" in MAM means it's not an option. The KOEL does not call out the G1000 by name, but only lists the functions that are mandatory which presumably could be satisfied by other equipment.

Someone with more time and brains than me should review the attached TCs for the DA40. The EASA TC makes a direct reference to the G1000, but is too large to upload. The Transport Canada and FAA do not, but there are many references to documents that may reference the G1000. It would serve all of us well if someone could separate folklore from fact on this issue and find the definitive requirement for the G1000.

Link for the EASA TC: https://www.easa.europa.eu/document-lib ... easaima022
Attachments
Transport Canada DA40 type certificate.pdf
(800.48 KiB) Downloaded 86 times
FAA type certificate.pdf
(98.84 KiB) Downloaded 92 times
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 1473 times

Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by CFIDave »

The G1000 was added to the DA40 in 2004 via a STC. That's why there's no mention of the G1000 in Diamond's AFM; instead you are required to carry Garmin's G1000 Supplement (https://support.garmin.com/en-US/aviati ... ier=170658) pages in your AFM binder in the aircraft if you have a G1000. Most Type Certificates (including the DA40) have in each TC "Equipment" section a statement that says you must have installed any equipment listed in the manufacturer's AFM. The G1000 is NOT included in the Lycoming model DA40's AFM or AMM, nor in any of Diamond's AFM Supplements for Lycoming DA40s. So Lycoming DA40s originally equipped with G1000 via STC should be legal to fly without the G1000, just like 2001-2003 steam gauge DA40s.

There are Diamond AFM Supplements for:
- Lycoming DA40 with G1000 NXi
- DA40NGs with Legacy G1000
- DA40NGs with G1000 NXi
So I would assume those planes must continue to have a G1000 or G1000 NXi installed in order to conform to their Type Certificates.

Separately, all DA42s and the DA62 have had the G1000 included into their AFMs from "day one" since the G1000 was NOT added via an STC to those aircraft. Diamond twin owners thus can't delete the G1000 either (unless they or a manufacturer want to develop a totally new non-G1000 avionics replacement STC).
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
User avatar
pietromarx
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 433
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
First Name: Peter
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: NZZZ
Airports: KWHP
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 156 times

Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by pietromarx »

This conforms with my understanding. Perhaps this is the secret plan that explains why Diamond / Garmin have been so remiss in covering the DA-40-180 / G1000 population: the simple fact is that it can be removed and replaced with something else as with any STC.
User avatar
ememic99
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 1078
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:31 am
First Name: Emir
Aircraft Type: DA42
Aircraft Registration: SEMAD
Airports: LDZA LDVA
Has thanked: 203 times
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Can the G1000 be removed and replaced with something else?

Post by ememic99 »

According to current avionics market situation, if one strips off G1000, the only replacement would be G500TXi and GTN750/650Xi plus GFC500/600, so I don’t see why would Garmin be against such STC.
Post Reply