Modern or classic

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Derek
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Modern or classic

Post by Derek »

Hello, I'm a happy da20 owner with 230hrs thinking about stepping up to a roomier, faster IFR plane. I love Diamond's safety and fun to fly factor so I'm considering a da40 but I'd like more seats (I have 3 kids) and maybe something a little different. I can't stop looking at the cessna 195! Am I crazy or would it be ok? It's old and a radial engine (!) but it's drop dead gorgeous, IFR, cruises at 150, and seats 5, a real bonus. I fly about 75hrs/yr, mostly to the cottage, so maybe a classic fuel gobbler isn't such a big deal. I'll spend more on maintenance and fuel but the plane will not depreciate as quick, may possibly go up? and it's cheaper to buy. What do you guys think? Does anyone wrestle with the same thoughts or better yet have experience running an older plane?
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Gasser
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Re: Modern or classic

Post by Gasser »

I would think it's like buying an old house. You buy it because you love it. You get in cheap because it's gonna cost a lot in upkeep. Could be a money pit.

For 5 seats my choice would be:

G5 Cirrus. Expensive
A36 bonanza. Still not cheap.
Cessna 210/206
Piper Saratoga.

All of these will do the job and be less to maintain than an old radial IMO.

Good luck.
Jeff

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Colin
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Re: Modern or classic

Post by Colin »

Piper Cherokee Six. People love them.
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CFIDave
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Re: Modern or classic

Post by CFIDave »

Another factor with the Cessna 195 is that it's a tail-dragger. You might find it to be a handful to land in gusty crosswinds. Early Cessna 190/195 aircraft actually came with castering wheels so you could touch down in a crab, but most of these planes have been converted to more-conventional main landing gear.
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rwtucker
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Re: Modern or classic

Post by rwtucker »

You have several good choices and you are seeing them here.

Let me put in a word for the Cessna 195. Aside from being a versatile aircraft that will take you almost anywhere you want to go, no runway required, the aircraft is a national treasure that will only appreciate in the long run.

True enough, you will need taildragger training if you are not already proficient but a C195/taildragger will make possible trips that we DA40 owners can only dream about. As you may know, Idaho has more maintained backcountry strips than any state in the lower 48. However, you may not know that the C195 was the official Idaho Division of Aeronautics aircraft for more than 30 years. The C195 flew all of those strips for decades and saved many lives over the years. I still see the aircraft from time to time. It is still in mint condition and is an attention grabber wherever it lands.

In my book, few things in the world are as cool as starting a radial engine in the crisp morning air.

P.S. Derek -- I did not notice your TT when I made this original post. There will be disagreement on this but some C195 pilots would say that you are on the leading edge of readiness for transitioning to this aircraft. I have said more than once in this forum that the downside of the Diamond DA40/20 design is that it is too forgiving as a training aircraft. In all of the ways that the Diamond design is forgiving of poor stick & rudder skills, the C195 is not forgiving. Most taildraggers require precise rudder control skills when low and slow, especially as Dave noted, in crosswind landings where is sometimes necessary to fly the aircraft all the way inside the hangar. The C195, and most non-Diamond designs will reward an unusually sloppy cross-controlled base to final turn with a spin into the ground. I don't want to overstate this issue -- taildraggers are the preferred, "status" landing gear among Idaho backcountry pilots and all you need is good training and practice to make you safe. I do want to point out that the transition to a C195 has several dimensions including high performance, S&R mastery (something not required at all in Diamond's design), and taildragger mastery, not just in S&R management of crosswinds; this aircraft can ground loop as well. Then there is the matter of getting that radial started! :D
Last edited by rwtucker on Mon May 04, 2015 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Henrik
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Re: Modern or classic

Post by Henrik »

Wow, last one rolled off the assembly line 61 years ago...

As they say, you wouldn't be an owner but a curator! :D

I'm not into antiques, but the C195 does look cool. I like the Beech 18 and DHC-2 Beaver as well.

By the way, doesn't these radials gobble down a healthy amount of oil?
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Derek
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Re: Modern or classic

Post by Derek »

Many thanks for your feedback and suggestions guys. Especially the safety advice Robert. I'm not in a rush so I'll keep thinking about it and gain experience in the meantime. It's a bit disappointing that 60 years later the new stuff isn't much better than the old, navionics excepted. Foreflight works better in a c195 than a diamond - there's enough room for a 20" monitor! It seems they got 85% of the GA innovation done in the first 50 years after Wright Bros, and just minor tinkering in the next 60. Then again, the radial does gobble oil too. If anyone lives in Toronto and wants to share a 195 and a da20 or 40, I'd be in.
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Re: Modern or classic

Post by CFIDave »

If you're serious about the C-195, this month's May 2015 Aviation Consumer magazine has an eye-opening used aircraft guide feature on the Cessna 195, with reports from owners, accident statistics, typical pricing, etc. It's available online if you subscribe with a password:
http://www.aviationconsumer.com/issues/ ... 737-1.html

The amount of maintenance required, oil consumption, landing challenges, poor visibility from the cockpit, etc. of the 195 really makes you appreciate more modern aircraft like Diamonds.
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rwtucker
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Re: Modern or classic

Post by rwtucker »

CFIDave wrote:The amount of maintenance required, oil consumption, landing challenges, poor visibility from the cockpit, etc. of the 195 really makes you appreciate more modern aircraft like Diamonds.
I'm in complete agreement on the visibility. Not so much on maintenance and landing.

No doubt there are a few more steps involved in maintaining a healthy radial than an IO360 but some would call that fun. Now, add in all of the composite and gee-whiz technology that keeps us busy in this forum and I'm not sure where that C195/DA40 maintenance balance lies but is seems clearly in favor of the C195 if you are comparing it to the DA42. Plus, an airworthy C195 has run out of most ADs while we Diamond folks are just getting started.

As for landing, there is no doubt that it requires more skill to land a taildragger and Diamonds are especially easy to land. Plus the C195 has a reputation for wobbling on final in certain wind conditions and can even ground loop. However, the longer airframe heavier taildraggers like the C195 are not nearly so challenging as a Pitts or even an old Chief or champ. Once you master those landing skills, the C195 can -- and does -- safely land under conditions that would probably break a Diamond.

The safety is an issue. Old wing design. High stall speed. No dihedral. Not forgiving of cross control. Belches oil and has been known to catch on fire when starting. It is probably no surprise that the old guys around here who like to fly it used to fly DC-3 & 6 and Connies. The C195 is one of the more accessible pieces of aviation nostalgia for the small GA pilot. Fun . . . but its best days are behind it..
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Re: Modern or classic

Post by Charbie »

Derek, we have one that flies into Burlington on occasion. I spent a lot of time considering it for the same reasons you mentioned. Several real beauties were listed for sale last year, even one with a spare engine. I was talked out of it by several AME's with decades of experience and hence chose the DA40. As a part owner, I would seriously consider going in on the right plane.
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