How to value a DA20

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okent
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How to value a DA20

Post by okent »

It's kind of a complicated story and need some advice.

I had been working toward getting my private pilot certificate in a DA20. Renting it by the hour. Had flown about 35 hours in the plane and loved it. On takeoff in 2013 I noticed dropping oil pressure and increase engine temp.
Immediately turned around and landed.
After inspection it turns out the engine needs an overhaul at a minimum.
The owners decided to think about it and I transitioned to a 172. After 11 hours I still hated it and stopped flying until the diamond was up and running.

Fast forward to now and the airplane is still sitting in a hanger and life got busy so I haven't done anything since.
I still want to fly and would love to get back in the DA20 or even a DA40.

My mission would be flying for enjoyment and twice monthly trips of less than 300 NM with occasional trips up to 600 NM. Mostly by myself or another passenger but occasionally with up to 4.
I like the idea of having autopilot but don't know if I will ever go on to fly IFR.

My question is what should the price be for a 2000 DA20-C1 with steam gauges that needs an engine?
Would it be reasonable to go ahead and update the panel to a G500?
Should I just bite the bullet and get a used DA40?


Back when all this had gone down the DA20's were about 60K but the listings for them now are sparse.
If I can get into the aircraft at the right price I'd be OK with flying it until I build up my hours and then sell it if I want to transition to the DA40.

Hopefully all that makes sense.
Thanks for any information.
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Pascal
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Re: How to value a DA20

Post by Pascal »

Hi Tom,

Diamond aircraft are in demand these days. I know what you mean when you talk about flying a Cessna. Tonight I was having fun doing steep turns with my DA20 and life was good.

You should be able to get the 2000 DA20-C1 at a significant discount. Unless the airframe is nearing an expensive 1000 hours airframe inspection, take 60k minus cost of overhaul. Budget between 20k$ and 30k$ for an overhaul. There is also a faster option. Buy a used engine with 1000 hours on it, there is a school in New Brunswick that sells those I believe, and fly six to ten years with it before you need an overhaul.

Here is the story of my airplane. Prices are lower in Canada. I bought my 1999 DA20-C1 in April 2017 with an engine having 1200 hours on it for 52k$ cad, so about 40k$ usd. I had to add 9% sales tax, and the 3000$ annual was on me.

This winter I brought the airplane up to my standards mechanically. Performed the 5000 hour inspection, which involves removing the wings, ailerons, flaps and elevator. I replaced all bolts and nuts and washers with new ones. I installed a new MT propeller, new landing pucks, led landing and taxi lights, new rpm indicator, replaced the dg with a reconditioned unit, installed led light strip under the glare shield for night ops, replaced a tire, brake pads, and other miscelaneous things. Total cost around 15k$ usd.

Now I am replacing the cracked canopy for a nice used one, 5k$.

My radios are noisy. An avionics guy will investigate this week. A new audio panel might be in my future. And ads-b out is just around the bend.

Here in Quebec you can get a DA20 engine overhauled for about 20k$ usd.

Installing a Garmin 500 doesn’t make sense monetarily, better get dual G5s or an Aspen unit and Foreflight on a mini ipad 4. If you have that much money to spend, then go look at the DA40 on controller with a past tbo engine asking price 85k$. Add 20k$ in repairs, 5k$ for adsb-out and 25k$ for an overhaul and you get yourself one hell of a machine at that price.

For 300nm trips or less in vmc, the speed difference between a DA40 and a DA20-C1 with an mt propeller does not make a huge difference in terms of flight time, not enough to justify the 100k$ price difference in my humble opinion. The DA40 is a serious ifr platform, well suited for long distances in relative comfort with an interesting payload.

I hope this helps. I still love my DA20-C1. It was the right airplane for me. Its affordability, frugality, manoeuvrability and reasonable speed made it my sweetheart. Of course I would have preferred a P51D, but I sleep very well at night knowing my airplane is not weighting down on my personal finances.
okent
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Re: How to value a DA20

Post by okent »

Thanks for the information!

I really did enjoy flying the plane and with the option to update the panel with G5's is something I just didn't know about. If I can get it in the price you discussed I'll definitely buy the plane.

Once I get some time in the aircraft I may look at getting a DA40 in the future but right now the DA20 seems like the best fit.

Hopefully I will hear back sometime this month. Fingers crossed!

Tom
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RMarkSampson
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Re: How to value a DA20

Post by RMarkSampson »

Tom,
If you NEED to fly more than two paxs then go find a DA-40. Get it with an autopilot and it will have everything you need, to include useful load, for now and the future. However, I'm a DA-20 guy like Pascal. I love the economy of going flying in my DA-20 but I'm restricted by VFR, 2 pax and a 462 lb useful load. 95% of my flights are no problem but occasionally I wish I had a DA-40 to overcome one or more of those restrictions. I do have an autopilot, one of the few that were decked out with extra bling so I can make 3 hour cross country hops without gripping the stick the entire flight.


No matter what Diamond you get - I think you will find the aircraft well built and a good value. You just need to do you homework and be patient while you look for the opportunity when someone wants to go big/fast and his Diamond no longer fits his mission.

r/Mark
okent
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Re: How to value a DA20

Post by okent »

Thanks for the info Mark. I'm still waiting to hear back on the DA20. It's a very real possibility that they just won't sell it and continue to let it gather dust. Crazy.
I'll see if I hear back this month and if not then I'll give them a ring first of August. Trying not to appear too eager ;-)

In the hours I spent with the DA20, autopilot would have been nice but from what I understand it's next to impossible to get it installed after the fact.


The one thing I hear all the time is that most are flying with empty seats, which is why I think the DA20 is a good starting point for me either way. When you factor in the cost being double for the DA40 it's a little harder sell to the wife too.
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RMarkSampson
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Re: How to value a DA20

Post by RMarkSampson »

Yep, the guy that sold me mine had already bought a DA-40 but was reluctant to give up the DA-20. It took a broker showing him the fiscal math of owning both planes. I'm glad he did because she has been a great plane for me and I'm sure he is enjoying his DA-40 and no longer looking back. Ultimately everyone does not like to spend money to maintain something they are not using - or can't afford to maintain. Not sure how far this DA-20 is from you but maybe you can convince him to sell it if you offer him some type of option to have occasional access to it. Personally I would shy away from a partnership but there are other "agreements" that could be made. Also he would have to give you a good price if he still has access to "your plane" - or he would need to put $$'s toward maintaining access. Either way it becomes your plane. Suitable restrictions would be prudent to ensure he does not break your plane. Obviously a current flight review and medical but also something like a 1 hour of refresher with a CFI if he has not flown a DA-20 within 90 days etc - and some type of clause that allows you to eventually terminate the relationship if not mutually beneficial.

I actually have my plane in a club - currently nine of us fly her. Most are former military with lots of hours but I have a few GA-only guys. It is some work to maintain a club but it is nice to spread the cost out with others. AOPA has a big initiative to help people to run a club that complies with FAA and IRS rules. The nice thing is a DA-20 is a really great plane to do the club thing with. Easy and economical to fly - and fairly inexpensive to maintain. It has worked for me for the past 3-4 years.

Having said that - "the wife factor" is the largest consideration. If you have that figured out, all else will follow. Good luck!
okent
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Re: How to value a DA20

Post by okent »

The plane is in my town, KRVS, I'm about 10 minutes from the FBO.
The owners, husband and wife, bought the plane to get their PPL. I know the wife through common patients and just stumbled on to the fact that they had the plane and were training in it.
She explained the safety and fun of the plane and that's what got me up in it to begin with.
She had increased work/kid stuff so they both fell away from flying the plane.
Also, they were renting it out through Riverside Jet Center to people like me to train.
I don't think they will ever get back in the air so it's just sitting. Sad.
Hopefully we can work something out.

I may look at starting a club after I've got ticket, especially if I end up transitioning to a DA40.
There's absolutely nobody in my area that I know of that has any kind of Diamond aircraft.

If I could find a club here I would just look at joining that and forego buying a plane outright.
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Karl
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Re: How to value a DA20

Post by Karl »

okent wrote:The plane is in my town, KRVS, I'm about 10 minutes from the FBO.
The owners, husband and wife, bought the plane to get their PPL. I know the wife through common patients and just stumbled on to the fact that they had the plane and were training in it.
She explained the safety and fun of the plane and that's what got me up in it to begin with.
She had increased work/kid stuff so they both fell away from flying the plane.
Also, they were renting it out through Riverside Jet Center to people like me to train.
I don't think they will ever get back in the air so it's just sitting. Sad.
Hopefully we can work something out.

I may look at starting a club after I've got ticket, especially if I end up transitioning to a DA40.
There's absolutely nobody in my area that I know of that has any kind of Diamond aircraft.

If I could find a club here I would just look at joining that and forego buying a plane outright.
Sounds like they don't feel they can commit the money right now to get it airworthy, but also want to get back to flying at some point so are reluctant to sell.

How about bringing up the subject of shared ownership, you pay for the repairs in exchange for a share in the aircraft. A win win.
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Re: How to value a DA20

Post by okent »

It's definitely not a money issue which I think compounds their apathy toward the aircraft.
If it was hurting their wallet then they would make a move but it's just not.

I wouldn't mind a shared ownership but I know they are just not interested in flying anymore.
I'd consider a DA40 in the area to get in on as well but I don't think there's anyone around here with one.
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Colin
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Re: How to value a DA20

Post by Colin »

My brother flew a plane from KFHR for a couple years that belonged to a woman who was never going to fly it again. I think he's since started trying to help her sell it. But he paid for the annual ($3,500, a LOT of items that were deferred in previous annuals) and paid some toward an engine reserve for the hours he flew. It was better for it to be flying than not and she is never going to get her medical back.

It's possible to work things out. It's always worth a conversation.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
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