ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Any DA40 related topics

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BRS
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by BRS »

The plane flew 3 hours yesterday. I wish I had been at the controls as there seems to be some mis-communications with the check pilot (local cfi there). My instructions were to keep the CHT's below 400 (max) but it seems he understood keep the CHT's at 400. Turns out he was constantly leaning during the flight so we don't really know what the temps are going to run.

My instructions for the next flight (possibly Friday) are to keep everything rich and cool and see what kind of fpm it will do without getting hot. I've a whole list of tests to do but that will have to wait for me to get at the controls.

Summary: Seems the flight was done WOT all the time except descent.

24" MAP point was at 11,500'. It was in a climb at this point so I don't know what it will cruise at speed wise.

At 8,000' (PA) it was flying right around 155ktas at 13 gph then
at ~15,000' it was doing 152 at 10 gph. As stated above it seems these were at rather lean but ROP settings, it's not clear. I'm looking forward to getting up and flying it myself and especially checking it LOP (which I will not let them do) and see how things go.

Installation wise it looks like it is going to be solid. It's light, does not affect the oil system. The only thing that came out of the test flight is that they are going to make the rather small diameter idler pulley larger for the sake of wear and tear on the belt. Currently they are using a "V" belt but are looking for options to go with a serpentine belt. In any case, a belt failure means the plane reverts back to normally aspirated.

A funny coincidence. Today I broke the SuperCharger belt on my truck. I had it off yesterday to do some engine work and must not have gotten it lined up properly upon re-installation. Which can happen with a serpentine belt. Though its a roots type blower it was a pleasant surprise to find that I didn't noticed the power difference until I tried to accelerate hard.

It will be another two weeks before I'm able to go out to pick-up the plane. Will continue to keep you informed.
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by BRS »

Here is a tidbit of info I was sent today. On the last flight the supercharger's max temp in operation was 150F. This was measured with a "calibrated non reversible temp sticker attached to the case". The outside temp was 77 F at takeoff (6000') and dropped to 63F at 10,000'. Can't ask for much cooler temps without an inner-cooler.

Oh, almost forgot about this little 'tidbit'. Yesterday Rod ran it without the SC drive belt, static on the ground. Usually normally aspirated aircraft will see 23" at their field (KAPA). With the belt removed and no ram air from in-flight movement it still had 22.5". So a dead SC does not take very much away from performance.

Real World Data
As much as I missed having the plane, it's absence afforded me focused opportunity to add CFI to my credentials. Last Monday I passed my check ride and also my 1000th logged hour. Quite a coincidence.

But now it's time to retrieve the plane and get some real world data - finally. Next Monday I will be in Denver and Tuesday, Lord willing, I will be on my way to Phoenix, AZ to visit family. Then a week later I will return via California to the Portland/Vancouver area.

My route to Phoenix is 516 nm. If the winds are not too strong up high I hope to climb to 16,500 for awhile. Configure LOP then eventually work my way down in 1000 ft increments.

Look forward to sharing this data with you. Stay tuned.
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by BRS »

I understand from the other forum that Rod has sent out postcards for the STC. Rod has said that marketing is not his strong point. I agree his timing would have been better if sent after I post my data. I'm on the road and was not able to login to the other forum as I could not find the "recover password" button like I did for this forum.

I was going to have posted the flight data from Denver to Phoenix (where I am now) but the air was rather bumpy thus my airspeed and climb rates were all over the place. So I'm holding off to get the data for tomorrows flight which is KGEU - L45 - KMCD? - W52. The air for this flight should be much smoother as the majority of it is through the California valley.

On my way here I flew from KAPA to KDRO to KGEU. The first leg was at 16,500 and the second leg at 12,500. Even at Durango with a DA of almost 8,000' take off performance was good though I could tell a noticeable difference in the aerodynamics (wings & prop) taking off from this altitude. It's really the first time I've done high altitude stuff operations, other than cruise flight, in the DA40. Thus I was not sure what to expect other than what the poh says. What I did notice, and I think it is prop efficiency not the SC (I've the metal Hartzel prop), is that once I lost airspeed at 16,500' due to a down draft it took longer than expected to get back to the cruise speed. I'll hold off on posting speeds until tomorrow's flight. Likely take me a day or two to get the information posted. Manifold at the indicated altitude of 16,500 was 20.1" I've not looked to see what the DA was.

I believe I've had a breakthrough concerning cooling. On the way here I was thinking that cooling was still a limiting factor. I spoke to a local mechanic at Glendale Aero who told me that a buddy of his retarded the timing on his twin by 1.5 deg and it made all the difference (TSIO-520's). So we decided to try this. While re-timing from the normal 25 BTDC we discovered that one mag was 27 deg and the other was 25.5 deg. Even though 27 is within limits it is contributing to my heat problem. This is probably why I've never been happy with the cooling. They are now set to 23 deg BTDC. I've not yet flown it this way but did a run-up and mag drops were normal.

It's supposed to be 115 deg F here in Phoenix tomorrow. I'm leaving just in time.
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by Antoine »

Hello Brock,

Thanks again for posting the update and your honesty.
Very curious/hopeful to see what the results of less agrressive ignition timing will be! This is a great idea!

However, I still cannot help thinking that
- this engine now needs to expell some 50% more heat at altitude than what the original cooling system was designed to do.
- A cooling flow designed specifically for this new set of parameters could convert a significant portion of the heat into thrust, which should reduce the net cooling drag penalty.

Maybe that could be a "phase II" project for another guinea pig? I think we all agree you've contributed more than your fair share!

Safe flight and looking forward to your data.

Antoine
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by BRS »

I need your help.

Please tell me what fuel flows you normally get at the following:

WOT / max rpm
24"/2400

Here is why I ask. It seems that changing the timing helped some but I think there is another heat culprit. Taking off from KGEU at 29"/2650 rpm I was seeing only 14 gpm. Then I set climb power of 24"/2400 and held that to 12,500'. I had to vary the climb rate to keep it cool as I was only getting 11.5 gpm (full rich). But at 6800' a funny think happened. The fuel flow started to climb from 11.5 and by the time I hit 9000' it was at 13.5 and finally cooling nicely.

Thumbing through my Lycoming book 14 & 11.5 for 100% & 75% jive with the charts. However I'm a skeptic and think it should be higher. What is your experience?
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by Rick »

BRS wrote:I need your help.

Please tell me what fuel flows you normally get at the following:

WOT / max rpm
24"/2400
Brock, flying from from fields in the 500' - 1500' MSL range, I always see 16-17 gph during initial climb (WOT, max RPM, full rich). Then at 1500' or so AGL, I pull the RPMs back to ~2500 and start leaning (using the CHTs) during the climb. Checking a couple of recent trips in the Reports section shows more like 12-13 gph at 2500 RPM (and WOT - I'm always WOT until the descent). Pretty much the same values for my previous DA40 also.
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by Paul »

Home field at 4,200. With prop at 2700rpm and mixture 3 clicks rich of peak RPM on the run up, I see 13.7 gph on the climb until I nose over and lean for cruise.
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by Graham »

Elev 640ft ASL
Full throttle, prop full forward: 17gph
Cruise climb: 25"/2500RPM: 14gph
8500 ASL: WOT/2300RPM: 9.2gph TAS 146
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by Jean »

Also in the 17 GPH range at 640 MSL, full forward (see REPORT 524 for example).
After reducing RPM and MAP I see only 10.37 at 8500 MSL, still climbing to 10000ft.
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Re: ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

Post by BRS »

Thanks all, this is a big help. Once I get my ff up to speed I'll do more testing. Hopefully then I'll have something meaningful to present.
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