ForcedAeroMotive: SuperCharged DA40

[BurdetteB]

Has the price really gone to 30k count me out!!!!!!!

[pietromarx]

Has the price really gone to 30k count me out!!!!!!!

If I understand the upgrade and performance correctly, it adds around 20 KTAS and quite a bit of climb performance improvements to a DA-40. This is roughly a 15% increase in speed and more in climb performance. On my airplane it probably offsets the weights on the front with something useful without changing W&B.

Measured one way, on an airplane worth about $300k, this isn't out of line. I had to replace a composite propeller (undisclosed damage from the seller) and it was around the same amount.

Expensive? Yes.

Worth it? I'm considering it.


Peter

[Ian Sage]

Has the price really gone to 30k count me out!!!!!!!

Unfortunately the process of obtaining an STC is painfully expensive and time consuming. Recouping those costs are a large part of the price built into every new product brought to market in aviation. We are not immune to the impact of those influences and it drove up our original projected price. The good news though is that the price is still several thousand lower than the SR-22 kit, making it similar to the cost of air conditioning. Those who did put down deposits early and stuck with us through the wait, those early prices are being honored. Rest assured that we would have much rather been to market sooner at a lower price if it was possible.

Cheers,

Ian

[BurdetteB]

The question is do you want to sell a 150 or do you prefer to sell 10

[TimS]

The question is do you want to sell a 150 or do you prefer to sell 10

That math only works when the market is significantly larger.
In addition, personally I would price to what the market will bear; focusing on early adopters.
Then gradually lowering the price.

Not saying this is the strategy; but it is one avenue.

Last point, on airplane stuff, my perception is it takes as much work to close a deal to sell something for 5K as it does for 50K. If that is the case, why would you start with 5K?

Tim

[Don]

Without reading through all the pages in this tread, is there a condensed one page sales-data sheet with performance improvements plus other benefits and features.

Thanks,
Don

[Ian Sage]

Without reading through all the pages in this tread, is there a condensed one page sales-data sheet with performance improvements plus other benefits and features.

Thanks,
Don

Don,

The short answer: Our development plane consistently sees 20kts increased cruise speed above 7000'msl and 500fpm more than you currently get at a given altitude above 7000'msl. Below 7000' the performance increase diminishes. For those who have the lead weights bolted to the front of their engine, this a direct replacement with benefits. Our 6 year 1800 hour warranties have all been honored over the decades.

The longer answer: Our systems are designed to provide sea level takeoff power up to 7000'msl and 75% cruise power at 12'000'msl. This means climbing out of places like Big Bear, Truckee and Denver at gross during the summer months is roughly akin to taking off at sea level. Climbing to the 12,000' range for cruise at 65-75% power generally provides the best (and improved) range. The rockies are functionally 7000' obstacles instead of 14,000' rock walls. Our systems run cooler than any turbo system on the market with lower maintenance and our warranty reflects that.

Unfortunately as we have detailed in the previous pages, every pilot has their own preferred flight profile and experience has shown that we simply can not do test flights at every altitude/power/weather/etc. configuration to simulate every possible configuration. FAA testing is long, expensive and 99% of it is done at full bore,.\ fire breathing dragon, "will it break" settings. That is what the majority of our flight data reflects to ensure we pass with a margin the first time on every test. The easiest way to explain it is to simply take your current flight profile, then add 7000' to each altitude where it can be achieved. The higher, cooler air at the same power setting means more air speed at the same power setting.

To potential customers who plan to fly up and down the coast but never above 7000' I warn that you will be disappointed with our product. You will see little benefit because it is not designed for that mission. Potential Cirrus customers who plan to routinely fly up in FL altitudes are likewise warned that they will not get the performance they would expect of a full blown traditional turbonormalizer system. Again, while they will see improved performance our systems are not designed to compete with traditional turbonormalizers in the flight levels. If you live at a high density altitude airport, routinely fly into mountain airports or fly across the rockies I challenge you to find another option that is better suited to your mission. The price is in the middle of our product range, far below any boosted systems for other aircraft, and in the same range as air conditioning.

I hope this answered your question. I am happy to continue the exchange here and we are always happy to answer any questions you have on the phone or in direct emails as well.

Cheers,

Ian

[Ian Sage]

The question is do you want to sell a 150 or do you prefer to sell 10

That math only works when the market is significantly larger.
In addition, personally I would price to what the market will bear; focusing on early adopters.
Then gradually lowering the price.

Not saying this is the strategy; but it is one avenue.

Last point, on airplane stuff, my perception is it takes as much work to close a deal to sell something for 5K as it does for 50K. If that is the case, why would you start with 5K?

Tim

The answer is, I prefer selling 10 at a profit to selling 150 at a loss. In the end the price is the cost to develop the system divided by the potential number of sales at any price point. As I stated earlier we are happy that we were able to keep the price as a new product to market in the middle of our product line. Given the setbacks we have endured we are extremely happy. We would MUCH rather have been to market sooner at a lower cost but various factors made that impossible. My apologizes to those customers that may have been excluded by the final price point but we ran the best race we could given the hurdles that were put before us. This is the ribbon we have to present at the end of this race.

Cheers,

Ian

[Rich]

I've been watching the project with interest lo these many years. But the interest for me is purely academic, as my plane is not a good candidate for this mod, even if I had a common flight profile for which it would provide benefit.

As I understand it, the mod adds 18 pounds, mostly hanging on the front of the engine and it would require changing to a 16 lb heavier metal prop. That's a whopping 34 pounds well forward in the airframe. My plane is one of the earlier ones with a forward CG. On many flights I'm routinely flying 1/2-1/4 inch from the forward limit. This is a minor condition right now. It's only a consideration in rare circumstances, given the relatively (for older Americans) svelte physiques of my wife I. But the change induced by this mod would require making sure we had some dead weight in the back all the time.

[BRS]

...
As I understand it, the mod adds 18 pounds, mostly hanging on the front of the engine and it would require changing to a 16 lb heavier metal prop. That's a whopping 34 pounds well forward in the airframe. ...

Rich,

I'm not sure I understand how you figure the above. Here is how I understand it.
-If you have a later plane with the ballast bolted to the engine, remove it and install the supercharger. Almost identical weights.
-If you have the plane w/o the ballast, then just bolt on the supercharger and adjust w&b. This is my configuration.

I'm not sure why you would need to change your prop. Which one do you have? I had changed my prop because I wanted the PowerFlow exhaust. The original prop was not approved with the PowerFlow, but they were the same weight. Do you have an MT?