Strong Headwind Landing
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- bcocheran
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Strong Headwind Landing
Hey all,
Just took a few spins in a 20kt headwind. Most landings were fine. On last, caught a considerable gust on the flare, floated, dropped. Nice solid landing (. Was at 68-70 kts, full flaps. Looking for good DA40 experience here. What is a approach setup and speed in strong headwind?
Brad - N216DG - KELK
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Just took a few spins in a 20kt headwind. Most landings were fine. On last, caught a considerable gust on the flare, floated, dropped. Nice solid landing (. Was at 68-70 kts, full flaps. Looking for good DA40 experience here. What is a approach setup and speed in strong headwind?
Brad - N216DG - KELK
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Brad Cocheran (KELK)
N373AM (2005 Diamond DA20)
N951TB (2006 Piper Meridian)
and several others...
Former:
N216DG (G1000) (40.698) - KELK
N108LC (G1000) 2013 SR22T
N835SR (Avidyne) 2006 SR22
N373AM (2005 Diamond DA20)
N951TB (2006 Piper Meridian)
and several others...
Former:
N216DG (G1000) (40.698) - KELK
N108LC (G1000) 2013 SR22T
N835SR (Avidyne) 2006 SR22
- CFIDave
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Re: Strong Headwind Landing
At least 2 things you can do in strong headwinds:
1. Don't use full flaps, just T/O flaps (or even no flaps) for landing. With a strong headwind on landing, you're already going to have a low groundspeed and a steeper approach, so no need for full flaps unless you really want to showoff your short-field landing skills.
2. Usually strong winds are also accompanied by gusts. Apply the usual rule of adding 1/2 the gust factor to your landing indicated airspeed. That'll make it less likely you'll be subjected to an unexpected sink if the windspeed suddenly drops. The additional airspeed will give you greater control authority. And you're less likely to worry about extended landing distances because of the strong headwinds.
1. Don't use full flaps, just T/O flaps (or even no flaps) for landing. With a strong headwind on landing, you're already going to have a low groundspeed and a steeper approach, so no need for full flaps unless you really want to showoff your short-field landing skills.
2. Usually strong winds are also accompanied by gusts. Apply the usual rule of adding 1/2 the gust factor to your landing indicated airspeed. That'll make it less likely you'll be subjected to an unexpected sink if the windspeed suddenly drops. The additional airspeed will give you greater control authority. And you're less likely to worry about extended landing distances because of the strong headwinds.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- bcocheran
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Re: Strong Headwind Landing
Hey Dave,
What is the maximum cross wind component, based on your experience and CFI ;-) do you think would the DA40 will handle with a margin of correction left in reserve?
What is the maximum cross wind component, based on your experience and CFI ;-) do you think would the DA40 will handle with a margin of correction left in reserve?
Brad Cocheran (KELK)
N373AM (2005 Diamond DA20)
N951TB (2006 Piper Meridian)
and several others...
Former:
N216DG (G1000) (40.698) - KELK
N108LC (G1000) 2013 SR22T
N835SR (Avidyne) 2006 SR22
N373AM (2005 Diamond DA20)
N951TB (2006 Piper Meridian)
and several others...
Former:
N216DG (G1000) (40.698) - KELK
N108LC (G1000) 2013 SR22T
N835SR (Avidyne) 2006 SR22
- CFIDave
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Re: Strong Headwind Landing
I haven't been a CFI that long, so I don't have a wealth of experience in exploring the crosswind limits of the DA40. (What's the old saying from Martha King of King Schools? "A superior pilot demonstrates his/her superior judgment by not being forced to demonstrate his/her superior skills.")
But so far in any crosswind situation I've run into, the DA40 hasn't yet run out of rudder authority. I suspect the earlier models (pre-2004) with smaller rudders might have more of an issue.
But so far in any crosswind situation I've run into, the DA40 hasn't yet run out of rudder authority. I suspect the earlier models (pre-2004) with smaller rudders might have more of an issue.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
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Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
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- Gasser
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Re: Strong Headwind Landing
What I've noticed in mine is I may have max rudder with some power in descending with gusty cross winds . I've landed with 15kt cross wind component. As I pulled power to idle or just above the plane turns much more and I need to release rudder pressure.
On my 15kt cross day full rudder was not enough to keep me straight with the power still in during descent. Once I pulled the power I had plenty of rudder. Just go out and practice. Progress up to cross winds your comfortable with. Seek them out and don't avoid. Just remember the rules in the above post and stay safe.
On edit, you'll have no shortage of winds out in Elk city.
On my 15kt cross day full rudder was not enough to keep me straight with the power still in during descent. Once I pulled the power I had plenty of rudder. Just go out and practice. Progress up to cross winds your comfortable with. Seek them out and don't avoid. Just remember the rules in the above post and stay safe.
On edit, you'll have no shortage of winds out in Elk city.
Jeff
PRIVATE PILOT, IFR
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2006 SR22, A/C, TKS, AVIDYINE PFD/MFD, IFD 540/440, AXP322 remote ADS-B TRANSPONDER, AMX240 AUDIO PANEL, MLB100 ADS B in.
168 KTAS 9,000' msl @ 13.6 gph LOP. 1005 pound useful load.
PRIVATE PILOT, IFR
2005 DA40 SOLD
2006 SR22, A/C, TKS, AVIDYINE PFD/MFD, IFD 540/440, AXP322 remote ADS-B TRANSPONDER, AMX240 AUDIO PANEL, MLB100 ADS B in.
168 KTAS 9,000' msl @ 13.6 gph LOP. 1005 pound useful load.
- smoss
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Re: Strong Headwind Landing
Back to the headwind landing topic, I disagree with faster approach speeds. While this does give you a cushion if the floor drops out, it also means a much longer time in the float, which is the most challenging part for me in gusty winds. If you're a few knots fast in the roundout, that equates to several seconds longer in the flare/float, with that much more probability of getting hit with a gust and popped back up 20 feet off the deck. Depending on where you are in the flare (still with speed vs nearing stall), that will likely equate to a plunker when the gust stops and you are already high and slow, unless you add some power. When it's tough conditions, I like to get it on the wheels as soon as I can, meaning shooting for those POH speeds and full flaps.
Just my humble opinion...
Just my humble opinion...
Steve
DA40 XL
DA40 XL
- CFIDave
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Re: Strong Headwind Landing
Just to be clear, the long-established recommendation (it's even in the FAA's Airplane Flying Handbook) is to add airspeed only for gusts (1/2 the gust factor), not for the headwinds themselves. So if the wind down the runway is 20G30, gusts above the base minimum wind would be 10 knots, and you would add only 5 knots to your final approach airspeed.
Where reasonable pilots often disagree is on how much flaps to use in gusty crosswind situations:
- Less flaps helps maintain directional control and makes the aircraft less likely to be pushed sideways by crosswind gusts.
- More flaps gets the aircraft slowed down more quickly so it spends less time in the float/flare when it may be more susceptible to crosswind gusts.
In either case, directional control is enhanced by not reducing power to idle until both main gear have touched down.
Where reasonable pilots often disagree is on how much flaps to use in gusty crosswind situations:
- Less flaps helps maintain directional control and makes the aircraft less likely to be pushed sideways by crosswind gusts.
- More flaps gets the aircraft slowed down more quickly so it spends less time in the float/flare when it may be more susceptible to crosswind gusts.
In either case, directional control is enhanced by not reducing power to idle until both main gear have touched down.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- Gasser
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Re: Strong Headwind Landing
I also add some airspeed in variable winds. I dropped a piper in once where the winds were being variable. A sudden loss of 20 knots off the nose sent me down in a hurry. Basically wind sheer. Lucky I was only 3-4 feet off the deck. Hit once bounced up and hit the throttle for a nice go round. A little extra airspeed to hedge your bets if you suddenly loose enough to drop you below your stall speed.
ID much rather float a tad then drop it in.
ID much rather float a tad then drop it in.
Jeff
PRIVATE PILOT, IFR
2005 DA40 SOLD
2006 SR22, A/C, TKS, AVIDYINE PFD/MFD, IFD 540/440, AXP322 remote ADS-B TRANSPONDER, AMX240 AUDIO PANEL, MLB100 ADS B in.
168 KTAS 9,000' msl @ 13.6 gph LOP. 1005 pound useful load.
PRIVATE PILOT, IFR
2005 DA40 SOLD
2006 SR22, A/C, TKS, AVIDYINE PFD/MFD, IFD 540/440, AXP322 remote ADS-B TRANSPONDER, AMX240 AUDIO PANEL, MLB100 ADS B in.
168 KTAS 9,000' msl @ 13.6 gph LOP. 1005 pound useful load.