It's never been done on my '02. I did have the rear spar carry-though reinforcement done a few years back, so I'm nowhere near the initial hourly limit and likely never will be. Strangely, this addendum does not appear on the Diamond site in the usual place for the AMM and its temporary revisions.N172MZ wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:16 pm Very confusing and conflicting information in here. What is the story, is this 12 year inspection mandatory or not? Can someone summarize the additional requirements of this primarily visual inspection, looks like the rudder has to come off for a look, what else? Where can I direct our non Diamond AP for some guidance to do this inspection? We have a 2006 DA40XL SN 730 that appears to be due for this. How many of you of this vintage have not done the additional 12 year inspection at annual? There were a ton of DA40XL's sold in this timeframe (pre-recession, when $$ was there to spend on airplanes) that would fall into this. Now on a tight budget so trying to keep costs down. Thanks everyone.
12 Year Structural Inspection
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
Marc- The items that must be inspected for the MSI are identified by "MSI" in the "Time" column of the lists in Section 05-28-50 of rev. 7 of the DA40 -180 AMM, available on line at http://support.diamond-air.at/fileadmin ... mplete.pdf Among other things, the horizontal stabilizer must come off for some of the inspections. See No. 16 of subsection 4 (Rear Fuselage).
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
Bernie, very helpful, thanks. The MSI is far less intimidating now, if actually required??
Looks like the biggest add to the annual will be the removal and reinstall of horizontal stabilizer.
Just to confirm for those tuning in, this is an inspection only and is in fact a requirement at 12 years for Canadian AND US aircraft? Or just Canada as was stated earlier?
Dave- Diamond can add the inspection to Chapter 4 but N-registered Part 91 owners do not have to comply with it. As noted in SAIB: HQ-16-14R1, the FAA's position with regard to inspections is the only ones that are mandatory are the original ones or ones that have been added by an AD.
Also, was this 12 year MSI added on Dec 12, 2017 and not required before?
Another dumb question for those in the know, would this inspection be required to continue to fly the aircraft at the exact 12 year anniversary of the airworthiness certificate, or at next annual?
Big question: Is it required for US or no?
Looks like the biggest add to the annual will be the removal and reinstall of horizontal stabilizer.
Just to confirm for those tuning in, this is an inspection only and is in fact a requirement at 12 years for Canadian AND US aircraft? Or just Canada as was stated earlier?
Dave- Diamond can add the inspection to Chapter 4 but N-registered Part 91 owners do not have to comply with it. As noted in SAIB: HQ-16-14R1, the FAA's position with regard to inspections is the only ones that are mandatory are the original ones or ones that have been added by an AD.
Also, was this 12 year MSI added on Dec 12, 2017 and not required before?
Another dumb question for those in the know, would this inspection be required to continue to fly the aircraft at the exact 12 year anniversary of the airworthiness certificate, or at next annual?
Big question: Is it required for US or no?
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
As I read through this thread it does not appear that the MSI is required, still conflicted info waiting on clarification. Looks like some with older planes than my 2006 that is up for the 12 year timeframe now have not done it.mhoran wrote: ↑Wed Apr 03, 2019 1:23 pmOur mechanic came back to us today and said that the MSI is, in fact, a required item as per the FAA.CFIDave wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:00 pm The way that an item is added to Chapter 4 to become required by the FAA (after original certification) is typically via an AD. If an item added to Chapter 4 was not approved by the FAA (but only by some other regulatory authority, e.g. Canada), it is not required for N-registered aircraft, so we're in agreement.
The attachment is the addendum that has been mentioned in the thread. So perhaps there is some way other than an AD to make these inspections mandatory?So after we spoke last week, I wanted to do some digging to find if in fact
the Major Structural Inspection is in fact an optional inspection. After
multiple conversations with Diamond and our FAA inspector, it was
determined that the inspection is actually mandatory. Attached to this
email is an addendum to the DA40 maintenance manual that Diamond sent me
explaining this.
Regardless, the time quotes we were given are in line with the Diamond estimated man hours to complete a servicing, so we're probably just going to have to bite the bullet and get the work done.
If it is required, check Bernies response with the link to the full maint manual, section 05-28-50, and the MSI column. It is a fairly simple inspection, but requires removal and replacement of horizontal stab. $4000 seems pretty excessive.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
We went back to our shop and showed them https://publicsafetyaviation.org/images ... 142018.pdf, which states:
The shop went back to their FAA inspector for clarification and we're still waiting to hear back.
We also showed them the airworthiness certificate transfer documentation, which references the older version of document 6.02.01 where the MSI is not mandatory.Installation or compliance with these FAA approved design changes is not retroactively mandatory for in-service aircraft, unless mandated by an AD or some other rulemaking action
The shop went back to their FAA inspector for clarification and we're still waiting to hear back.
Perhaps it's just labor costs, but the estimated number of hours from viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5020&start=20#p73683 (80.5) multiplied by our shop's hourly rate ($85) comes in at $6842.5. That's spot on with the estimate we received from our shop, so I'm not sure how folks are getting this done for significantly less. Note that the MSI would also cover the annual inspection, so that's our all-in cost (excluding the main spar AD compliance, which we plan to defer.)If it is required, check Bernies response with the link to the full maint manual, section 05-28-50, and the MSI column. It is a fairly simple inspection, but requires removal and replacement of horizontal stab. $4000 seems pretty excessive.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
Matt- Are you doing the 2000 hour inspection as well? As I read the chart, the MSI inspection, separate from a 200 hour inspection, is 9 hours (89.5 for 2000+MSI, 80.5 for 2000). That would be $765. My annual inspection by itself at the same shop rate is $1530 (18 hours). Even with other mandatory work such as the PowerFlow inspection, $6842 seems high.
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
I think I see the confusion here. I read the "2000" column as 2000 OR 12 year, which is the equivalent of an MSI, and the "2000+ MSI" column as any subsequent MSI required at 2000 / 12 year intervals. I do not read the MSI as an independent item of 9 hours.blsewardjr wrote: ↑Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:32 pm Matt- Are you doing the 2000 hour inspection as well? As I read the chart, the MSI inspection, separate from a 200 hour inspection, is 9 hours (89.5 for 2000+MSI, 80.5 for 2000). That would be $765. My annual inspection by itself at the same shop rate is $1530 (18 hours). Even with other mandatory work such as the PowerFlow inspection, $6842 seems high.
Historically, our annual has been in line with your experience. Our new shop estimated the labor of a plain old annual at about twice the number of hours, so your experience is helpful in that regard.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
Matt- Did you end up doing the MSI? Did it require taking off the wings and fuel tanks in order to do the required MSI inspections of the wing interior? Thanks. Bernie
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
We did not. I'll be bringing the plane to our previous mechanic for our next annual and will see what he has to say about the whole mess.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection
Thanks!
Bernie Seward, IR, AGI
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA
2003 DA40 N377DS
KCHO Charlottesville, VA