12 Year Structural Inspection

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mhoran
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by mhoran »

Lance Murray wrote: Fri Oct 03, 2014 5:11 pm Remember that Chapter 5 items are not mandatory for US N registered aircraft. They are recommendations but not mandatory.
Lance (or others) -- could you clarify? We just brought our plane into a Diamond service center for its annual. They came back to us today and mentioned that it's due for the 12 year inspection (not yet 2000 hours).

We're looking at a $7000 annual vs the regular $2000 that we've seen year over year since purchasing back in 2014.

These folks haven't fleeced us in the past, so I'm a bit surprised that this work would be considered optional. The $7000 is mostly labor, with approx. 70 hours required for the 12 year inspection + the work for the aft main spar compliance and a few other items.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by smoss »

The MSI was added to chapter 4 in a 2017 AMM adedndum, albeit it was a Canada addendum. The price quote you got seems high, as the MSI items are mostly things commonly looked at, with a few add ons. Just review the AMM checklists and look for the MSI items. Really not a huge deal. Also, the spar AD is not due for 20 yrs or 2000 hours.
Last edited by smoss on Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by Lance Murray »

Diamond is muddying the waters by changing this to Chapter 4. This does not apply to you if you are operating a N-registered aircraft. The mandatory airworthiness items (Chapter 4) that apply to our aircraft are the items contained in the maintenance manual on the date the aircraft was certified. The only way to impose a mandatory maintenance item after certification is through an Airworthiness Directive.

Mandatory Service Bulletins are not mandatory.
Optional service bulletins are not mandatory
Maintenance Manual chapter 4 items published after the certification of the aircraft are not mandatory.

Airworthiness Directives ARE mandatory.

$4,000.00 to do this MSI sounds excessive. Does Diamond publish an expected hours to complete the item?
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by blsewardjr »

The subject of the effect of the 2017 addendum has been discussed on several threads -- see, e.g.,viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6261&hilit=msi. I think we all agree that we can maintain our N-registered aircraft in accordance with Ch. 4 of the original AMM, which does not contain the MSI requirement (it's in Ch. 5 in the original AMM). The tricky part then is whether we have to continue to replace the rudder cables every five years as specified in the original Ch. 4 of the AMM, which does not distinguish between steel and SS cables as the revision does (which also, and most importantly, moves the requirement to Ch 5). Opinions differ. Conversely, if we chose to maintain the aircraft pursuant to the modified AMM, then another question is whether under the addendum an MSI is actually required at the first 12 years given the precise text used for aircraft that have already had the AD 2014-13-08 Wing spar modification
done (which implements MAM 40-394/398). Compare with the text used for aircraft that have not had the AD done. Again opinions differ. Finally, while most of the MSI consists of detailed inspections, in my opinion it is a major deal because it requires removal of the horizontal stabilizer -- see Section 05-28-50, page 17, item 16.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by BkFlyer »

smoss wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:29 pm Also, the spar AD is not due for 20 yrs or 2000 hours.
I think it is 10 years at most. The exact due date seems to be based on the Time In Service hours at the end of August 27 2014, or max 114 months.
0-1,499: Before an additional 2,000 hrs or January 2024
1,500-1,999: Before an additional 500 hrs or January 2024
2,000-2,499: Before an additional 500 hrs or September 2018
2,500+: Before an additional 100 hrs or September 2015
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by BkFlyer »

blsewardjr wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 1:09 am The subject of the effect of the 2017 addendum has been discussed on several threads -- see, e.g.,viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6261&hilit=msi. I think we all agree that we can maintain our N-registered aircraft in accordance with Ch. 4 of the original AMM, which does not contain the MSI requirement (it's in Ch. 5 in the original AMM).
I agree with all that. Just wanted to point out some evidence from FAA that supports the idea that the MSI is not mandatory. In the linked thread Diamond reps made the argument that a phrase from the original AMM tied Chapter 5 to Chapter 4, and basically made all structural checks mandatory.
Note: The DA 40 has been designed and tested under a 'damage tolerant structure' philosophy. Therefore the structural inspections given in Chapter 05 cover all required structure checks.
However, in AD 2014-02-26, the FAA states the opinion:
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... -13-08.pdf
U.S. operators are not required to comply with the requirement to inspect before the next MSI since the Limitations in Chapter 4 of the AMM are mandatory, and the MSI in Chapter 5 of the AMM is not mandatory.
This, despite that the statement Diamond pointed at was in the AMM.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by smoss »

BkFlyer wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 6:24 am
smoss wrote: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:29 pm Also, the spar AD is not due for 20 yrs or 2000 hours.
I think it is 10 years at most. The exact due date seems to be based on the Time In Service hours at the end of August 27 2014, or max 114 months.
0-1,499: Before an additional 2,000 hrs or January 2024
1,500-1,999: Before an additional 500 hrs or January 2024
2,000-2,499: Before an additional 500 hrs or September 2018
2,500+: Before an additional 100 hrs or September 2015
Adam,
You are correct, it is about 10 years max, I recalled incorrectly in my original post.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by mhoran »

Thanks all, this has been super enlightening. I'm going to reach out to the shop and let them know that we're a bit surprised by the estimate and that we'd like to defer the non-required work until we can get additional quotes.
$4,000.00 to do this MSI sounds excessive. Does Diamond publish an expected hours to complete the item?
While I don't have a quote for the MSI itself, the time required was estimated to be an additional 35-40 hours over the annual. Based on the responses in this thread, that does sound excessive, since the only additional work seems to be that the horizontal stabilizer has to come off. We've had to do that in the past (don't ask...) and it didn't cost all that much.

For the AD compliance, the FAA estimated the cost at $610 back in 2014. Let's round that up to $1000. So that still leaves $4000 for the MSI alone.

As always, it's great to have a community to bounce these type of questions off of. Thanks again!
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by blsewardjr »

My wing spar AD was $515 in 2018.
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Re: 12 Year Structural Inspection

Post by BkFlyer »

blsewardjr wrote: Wed Mar 27, 2019 4:33 pm My wing spar AD was $515 in 2018.
That is great data, thank you for that! I wish we had a database of all the ADs and MSBs and associated real costs :)

Looks like you're also east coast, and near a metro. I would expect NYC area to be more expensive, but it should definitely should be well under $1,000 for this work, and validates the FAAs national estimate.
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