Winter ops in the DA40

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Kent Shook
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Winter ops in the DA40

Post by Kent Shook »

Hi all,

We've had a DA40 for a few years now, but we're continually trying to improve how we fly and treat it.

With that in mind, a couple new questions this year:

1) Does anyone take their wheel pants off for the winter? Has anyone had any issues with ice/snow buildup inside the wheel pants and has that caused a wheel to stick?
2) How do you get frost off the wings? Our planes are hangared but when you go for a $100 hamburger on a cold, clear night you'll often get some frost buildups while you're on the ground. Since I think Diamond has stated that the ol' credit-card trick is a no-no, what's the best way to get frost off the wings? (Assuming a heated hangar is not available.)

Thanks!

Kent
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Re: Winter ops in the DA40

Post by Tommy »

Over seven winters in Cleveland with extensive winter flying and never took my wheel pants off and never had a problem.
You shouldn't be getting frost on your wings if you're in a hangar and don't go for $100.00 ham-burglars at night. Seriously, if you're getting frost on your wings at night on the ground while stopping over somewhere, wherever, I would not be flying at night. Just not a good idea. There's plenty of other times you can fly at night and not have to deal with frost on the wings. It's just not worth the risk.
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Kent Shook
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Re: Winter ops in the DA40

Post by Kent Shook »

Tommy wrote:Over seven winters in Cleveland with extensive winter flying and never took my wheel pants off and never had a problem.
Good to know, thanks! This will be our fifth winter, and I don't think we've ever had a problem, but some club members are saying they think we will.

Of course, at the rate we go through tires and brakes in the club, someone may have frozen a wheel and either not realized it or not said anything about it.
You shouldn't be getting frost on your wings if you're in a hangar and don't go for $100.00 ham-burglars at night. Seriously, if you're getting frost on your wings at night on the ground while stopping over somewhere, wherever, I would not be flying at night. Just not a good idea. There's plenty of other times you can fly at night and not have to deal with frost on the wings. It's just not worth the risk.
So, as long as the frost is off the wings before you take off, what's the risk? Frost doesn't form in flight, only when sitting on the ramp. And since it's night darn near all the time people fly on weekdays this time of year, we'd be losing an awful lot of the utility of the plane if we didn't ever fly it on a clear night in the winter, especially since the non-clear nights tend to be not conducive to flying this time of year.

I'm just curious if anyone carries a spray bottle with one of the approved de-ice fluids or has some other sort of trick to get it off.
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Re: Winter ops in the DA40

Post by Lance Murray »

I live in a relatively warm climate so I don't have the issues with winter but I have seen a set of DA40 Wheel fairings that were trashed due to landing in snow.
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Re: Winter ops in the DA40

Post by Charbie »

I live just outside Toronto Canada.
Previous owner told me to remove wheel fairings during winter as slush builds up and expands and cracks the fairings.
One of them Has a slight crack. So I take her word for it and off they go.
The POH for the da40 lists the acceptable deice materials.
I may be mistaken, but the "cold" soaking is the term I have heard for the frost build up factor, which is the fuel becoming colder than the surrounding air and when you land and park it, moisture condenses and causes the frost. Wing covers would prevent it.
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JimP
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Re: Winter ops in the DA40

Post by JimP »

I fly in Minnesota and North Dakota into small airports and I always take the pants off although it costs me about 5 knots. It is not the snow or slush inside the pants that concerns me. It is the clearance to the ground and the likelihood of hitting a small chunk or ridge of ice or packed snow. I cracked a main gear pant this way and have since removed them every winter. Make sure you update your weight and balance calculation when you take them off.
I have had frost on the wings, even in the day after refueling, but have wiped it off with leather gloves. the slight residue dries off almost immediately in the prop wash.
Finally, I agree with Kent regarding night flying. It is dark in Grand Forks by 4:30 in December so it is much harder to avoid flying at night. But night flying is beautiful in the winter and if you have a moon on the snow it is very light. I always carry warm boots and clothing suitable for the temperatures just in case.
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Kent Shook
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Re: Winter ops in the DA40

Post by Kent Shook »

This thread got me thinking again. Looking at the list of approved de-ice fluids, they run in the $60/gal range... But it sounds like maybe at least some are nothing more than RV antifreeze repackaged with the aviation tax applied.

Of course, with our composite birds we need to be a bit more careful what we spray on the wings... Does anyone actually use a spray deicing fluid? If so, what? And do you apply it hot?

To be perfectly compliant with Diamond's recommendations, it appears that you need to spend $800 for an aircraft-portable sprayer and $300 for a 5-gallon bucket of fluid. Yikes.
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Re: Winter ops in the DA40

Post by GLDAS »

Wheel Pants on; we have a very good snow removal contractor, though YMMV. It's the frozen chunks of (former) slush that will be a problem, so if the snow removal people are lazy and wait for it to melt, you will have problems with any plane.

Wing de-frost: I have used garden sprayers with TKS fluid for years on a variety of planes. Just spray it on , wait a minute or two, and wipe down with cloth or water blade. Obviously this doesn't work for snow, and in that case you're best off with wing covers. They are not hard to put on, but they are big, heavy, and an all-around wet mess if you have to put them in the plane.

A neighbor who sells plastic wrap for industrial uses would completely wrap his Baron's wings and tail in saran wrap type material on our ski trips out west. Single-use wing covers?
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Re: Winter ops in the DA40

Post by Colin »

A friend was in Alaska and saw a bush pilot spraying the wings of his Super Cub with WD-40.
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Re: Winter ops in the DA40

Post by jon1746 »

When I had the DA40, I always removed the wheel pants in the winter.
Last edited by jon1746 on Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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