Adding WAAS?

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BlueYonder
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Adding WAAS?

Post by BlueYonder »

Brand new owner of a 2007 non-WAAS DA40 here. The previous owner generously upgraded the plane with a GTX345R ADS-B system. I'm wondering:

1) Is it worthwhile to pursue a WAAS upgrade? What are the main advantages? I intend to use the plane to get my IFR rating. (The AP is a GFC700.)

2) If yes, then: what's the most cost-effective solution?
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Chris
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Re: Adding WAAS?

Post by Chris »

We also have a 2007 XL without WAAS and have yet to do the upgrade.

The upgrade entails installing new GIA63W modules to replace the older GIA63 ones, a new MFD with an extra button or two, and a G1000 s/w update. The last time I checked, the cost was $20k, so we've decided it's not worth the extra cost for now. The main advantage to having it done is the ability to fly lower minimums on GPS RNAV LPV and LP approaches.
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Keith
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Re: Adding WAAS?

Post by Keith »

I recently checked as I was shopping for an upgrade. Diamond said "around $35K" but more if you have the GFC autopilot and want altitude control. In that case you get new displays with the FLC button as well.

Way too much, but I think we will need WAAS more as time goes by.

I currently have 530W/430W and will keep what I have until I can just get a late model plane already equipped.
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CFIDave
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Re: Adding WAAS?

Post by CFIDave »

I think the answer really depends on how you intend to use the airplane.

If you need to fly in IMC to meet time/date commitments for when you have to be somewhere (subject to the usual go/no-go safety considerations), then you're going to want WAAS. Not only can you fly to lower minimums, but use of a stabilized glide slope (e.g., LPV, LP+V, or LNAV+V) is much safer than flying "dive and drive" LNAV or LOC approaches in IMC. You'll also have a better choice of alternates, and you'll no longer have to do VOR checks every month. As I'm sure you know, most VORs are going away, and the FAA isn't paying for new ILS approaches any more. So WAAS-based RNAV approaches (e.g., LPV and LP) are quickly becoming the "norm" for GA airports (airlines flying into larger airports can continue using ILS approaches).

On the other hand, if you're mostly a fair-weather flyer, or one who is usually in a position to postpone a trip until the weather improves, then you may want to avoid the major cost of a WAAS upgrade.

Also consider that you might recover as much as 50% of the cost of a WAAS upgrade when it comes time to sell your DA40, which will sell more quickly and easily than one without WAAS.

And by the way, welcome to the forum!
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Rich
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Re: Adding WAAS?

Post by Rich »

Hello again, Sara. The DA40 G1000 WAAS upgrade situation is a bummer. Dave's response gives you the general overview benefits of having it and I concur. But more specifically, when you look at the various approach charts you'll find numerous LPV approaches in your area: FHR, BVS, PAE and your home airport, KAWO to name a few. KAWO has a 200 ft. AGL decision altitude, whereas the LNAV is 400.

From a training standpoint, the mechanics of flying ILS approaches are quite similar, though not identical. Expect to spend a lot of time practicing ILS/LOC approaches into PAE. In reality I find LPV approaches easier to fly than ILS. And PAE's glideslope seemed to be fairly frequently out of service for some reason when I was based there. My recollection is that this is in good weather, so it seems elective and doesn't affect actual IFR operations. But a bummer when training in good weather.
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dafzero
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Re: Adding WAAS?

Post by dafzero »

Hi Sara,

Welcome to a most useful forum and congratulations on your plane.

I agree with Dave. If you're not committed to doing hard IFR approaches then I wouldn't rush off to do the upgrade. It would be nice to do LPV approaches but we get along well enough without it. With my '05 DA40, the cost of doing the ADS-B combined with a WAAS upgrade for the G1000 would be 25% or more of what I paid for the aircraft which I cannnot justify. I see the future of mine is to sell it soon and spend my $'s on a newer craft (DA42) that doesn't require such an investment. I can't see the ROI.
Cheers!
David

PS Don't forget to subscribe to the forum so you'll know when you get a response.
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Charles K
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Re: Adding WAAS?

Post by Charles K »

Let's also remember that the original sales sheets for the DA40 describe the GIA63s as WAAS upgradeable. This should never have hit us as a 30K remove and replace. I continue to go round and round with Diamond on this. I do feel that this of us that bought into the first G1000 aircraft were not treated fairly on this one. It should have been send in the boxes just like the 430 and 530 owners. Then I would do it.
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Rich
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Re: Adding WAAS?

Post by Rich »

Charles K wrote:Let's also remember that the original sales sheets for the DA40 describe the GIA63s as WAAS upgradeable. This should never have hit us as a 30K remove and replace. I continue to go round and round with Diamond on this. I do feel that this of us that bought into the first G1000 aircraft were not treated fairly on this one. It should have been send in the boxes just like the 430 and 530 owners. Then I would do it.
I agree. To clarify, the 530/430 upgrade was never advertised to be free, and it indeed was not. $1500 per unit plus some shipping and installation (wiring and change out the GPS antennae) costs. And the per-unit cost was known to the industry years before we even bought the plane. All told, it cost us about $3,600 to upgrade both units. For some plane types (not the DA40) there were additional costs, such as replacement of the GPS antenna cabling and possibly an additional annunciator. But this is far more reasonable than the price the G1000 owners are being quoted.
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Re: Adding WAAS?

Post by Antoine »

Hello Sara and welcome here!

My opinion as a former '2007 XL owner:
The price premium for the WAAS upgrade to G1000 planes is ridiculously high!
You already have ADS-B thanks to your plane's previous owner. I would simply wait and see if you ever find that WAAS would have been of use in a given situation, and then ask yourself how much you'd have paid for being able to fly this one approach down to LPV minima. $100? $ 1'000?

If you end up really wanting WAAS, the smart way is to sell the plane to someone who does not have the need and either
- upgrade to a WAAS equipped G1000 aircraft
- downgrade to a non G1000 aircraft and get yourself a GTN750 and a G5.
The G1000 is wonderful, but I am amazed at how much BETTER the GTN750 is.
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Rich
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Re: Adding WAAS?

Post by Rich »

Antoine wrote:I would simply wait and see if you ever find that WAAS would have been of use in a given situation, and then ask yourself how much you'd have paid for being able to fly this one approach down to LPV minima. $100? $ 1'000?
WAAS is more than LPV mins vs. non-LPV. It also provides vertical guidance on many GPS approaches even when the weather isn't all that low. This is especially helpful for those approaches with a million step-down points, such as RNAV Rwy 29 at KBVS. And as accurate as we think non-WAAS GPS is, WAAS provides considerably more reliable, tighter accuracy than non-WAAS. There are a couple of regulatory advantages, also:

- More flexibility in filing alternate.
- Your primary (and even sole) navigation is now OK to be WAAS. (As a practical matter today, having no VOR/LOC would today likely produce some clumsy clearances into certain airports, such as KVUO.)

But 30K is a tough nut, no argument.

From a training perspective, WAAS really isn't a real requirement. Lots of folks these days are getting their IFR training without it. In some cases without being able to legally file /G on an IFR flight plan. Because the flight school doesn't keep the databases up to date or the plane doesn't even have the appropriate GPS (or may have none at all). I know of flight schools like this.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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