Shutting up the TAWS
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- rwtucker
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
There must be a few anomalies in the G1000 databases. There used to be a place between two mountain ranges near Ely, Nevada where the CAUTION TERRAIN warning would escalate even though there was no terrain that close to me and no terrain at all on my projected flight path. As nearly as I could tell, the Garmin seemed to think that the edge of one range was sticking out 500 feet or so further than it was. I fly through much tighter passages in other places and never get warnings unless my projected flight path makes my Garmin unhappy.
I wonder how the warning algorithm works for landing. I can't recall getting a warning when I practice descending to an imaginary emergency landing spot in a remote area. Maybe I'm not quite down to 500 feet when I decide I've had enough practice.
I wonder how the warning algorithm works for landing. I can't recall getting a warning when I practice descending to an imaginary emergency landing spot in a remote area. Maybe I'm not quite down to 500 feet when I decide I've had enough practice.
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
I submit that the TAWS or TCAS might just save your butt some time. You paid a lot of money for those safety devices. TAWS is about 10K and TCAS is even more.
If you are getting TAWS alerts you are likely doing something wrong. Try lowering your "sink rate". If you are constantly getting "traffic" alerts likewise it may be a setup issue.
One thing I did do on my Avidyne traffic system is add a ground/air switch to eliminate nuisance alerts while on the ground.
If you are getting TAWS alerts you are likely doing something wrong. Try lowering your "sink rate". If you are constantly getting "traffic" alerts likewise it may be a setup issue.
One thing I did do on my Avidyne traffic system is add a ground/air switch to eliminate nuisance alerts while on the ground.
- rwtucker
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
This would be more true true with a perfect datamap Lance but per above there may still be little exceptions in complex mountain ranges. Aside from that, I think a lot of us who fly in the mountains, safely and following good mountain flying rules, would disagree with you. The G1000 algorithm appears to be programmed for more typical types of flights. It does not "like" having mountains all around you, sometimes even when your 2-minute projection is still in the clear. When flying in the backcountry, no pilot needs to be "cautioned" that there is terrain in the vicinity. Terrain is pretty much all you can see. Such warnings are kind of like saying "Caution, you are in the air." The alarm is definitely a nuisance in some cases and can be a distraction from good flying practices.Lance Murray wrote:. . . If you are getting TAWS alerts you are likely doing something wrong.
- Rick
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
I completely agree - both systems are VERY useful, and could save your life one day. I would never advocate turning them off as a matter or practice. However... there are times when they are more of a problem than a help. For me, the Traffic warnings become an issue on short final, with another aircraft holding short of the runway waiting to depart, with the repeated "Traffic, 12 o'clock, less than one mile, same altitude" warning - which distracts my attention every time. Yet, I still won't turn off the warning on approach, because the airport environment is exactly where the traffic COULD be the most useful. I just wish it was a little bit smarter!
I have had Dave's experience, too - the TAWS freaks out if you are trying to land somewhere it doesn't believe to be an airstrip. In my case, I first experienced this when landing at the Diamond factory in London the first time, not realizing my airport database stopped at the US border! We ALL need to be aware that this will be a BIG distraction if an off-airport landing is ever required, though - so BE PREPARED! If, God forbid, you ever have an engine failure and pick a nice field, as you are getting your approach right, your already-high stress level will be raised further by the TAWS shouting "Terrain, Terrain, pull up, PULL UP!!!" over and over in your head as you are trying to land.
I have had Dave's experience, too - the TAWS freaks out if you are trying to land somewhere it doesn't believe to be an airstrip. In my case, I first experienced this when landing at the Diamond factory in London the first time, not realizing my airport database stopped at the US border! We ALL need to be aware that this will be a BIG distraction if an off-airport landing is ever required, though - so BE PREPARED! If, God forbid, you ever have an engine failure and pick a nice field, as you are getting your approach right, your already-high stress level will be raised further by the TAWS shouting "Terrain, Terrain, pull up, PULL UP!!!" over and over in your head as you are trying to land.
Roanoke, VA (KROA)
- Rich
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
With my equipment (530W/430W) I really don't get too much hassle from the plane except when flying somewhere like the Columbia River Gorge, where the screens keeps getting covered over with terrain alerts. But no real audible annoyances. It's not a true TAWS, thankfully.
Foreflight, on the other hand can be annoying in the pattern and while taxiing. The latter due to alerting when entering the runway (sure, stupid. I'm trying to take off!!) right as I'm trying to pay close attention to possible real late-revealing hazards. And right after liftoff it will annoy me with "traffic - 12 o'clock - 1 mile", which of course I just saw take off. It helps to be verbally ridicule it. Now one can disable specific alerts but this ability is a bit too finger-busy and distracting to be enabling and disabling in flight. So my solution is to pop the audio cable out of the iPad when I don't want to be whined at, then plug it back in when I do
Foreflight, on the other hand can be annoying in the pattern and while taxiing. The latter due to alerting when entering the runway (sure, stupid. I'm trying to take off!!) right as I'm trying to pay close attention to possible real late-revealing hazards. And right after liftoff it will annoy me with "traffic - 12 o'clock - 1 mile", which of course I just saw take off. It helps to be verbally ridicule it. Now one can disable specific alerts but this ability is a bit too finger-busy and distracting to be enabling and disabling in flight. So my solution is to pop the audio cable out of the iPad when I don't want to be whined at, then plug it back in when I do
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
- Colin
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
The pilots of Comair Flight 5191 probably wish they had that ForeFlight warning about the runway, since it specifically tells you WHICH runway you are entering. I like seeing that confirmation. Hell, Harrison Ford might have liked it if they had a version that told you which runway (or taxiway, as the case may be) that you were lining up on to land...
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- rwtucker
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
Poor Harrison. He has done a lot for GA but it has run the other way lately, especially in terms of the doubts placed on we more "senior" pilots.
In contrast to the TAWS noise, which is not useful and possibly harmful in a small number of well defined situations, I think the TCAS warnings introduce risk in two situations. The first is on approach or departure when I am warned about "traffic" on the ground. Those worthless warnings routinely interfere with radio communications. I think I can fix that but have not looked into it. The second is when I fly into the nation's busiest GA flight school airport where there may be 20 or more targets in or very near the patterns at a given time (two parallel runways). In such cases, the non-stop notification of targets interferes with radio communications, which creates unnecessary stress. This latter situation is so bad that I began flying into an airport more distant from my destination.
In contrast to the TAWS noise, which is not useful and possibly harmful in a small number of well defined situations, I think the TCAS warnings introduce risk in two situations. The first is on approach or departure when I am warned about "traffic" on the ground. Those worthless warnings routinely interfere with radio communications. I think I can fix that but have not looked into it. The second is when I fly into the nation's busiest GA flight school airport where there may be 20 or more targets in or very near the patterns at a given time (two parallel runways). In such cases, the non-stop notification of targets interferes with radio communications, which creates unnecessary stress. This latter situation is so bad that I began flying into an airport more distant from my destination.
- Colin
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
Robert, I was in that situation yesterday, landing at KHIO. There were at least half a dozen planes in the pattern, including a couple Senecas moving faster than the rest, a couple warbirds which did pattern work as a formation pair, as far as I could tell, and Nike and Intel bizjets in the mix. Plus training traffic going to and from some nearby training area. It was amazing.
With all of it, I was glad I had the ADS-B traffic, but other than a couple callouts for things when I was on short final, I didn't get that much from the TCAS.
I don't know how the tower controller was doing it. Very impressive.
With all of it, I was glad I had the ADS-B traffic, but other than a couple callouts for things when I was on short final, I didn't get that much from the TCAS.
I don't know how the tower controller was doing it. Very impressive.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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- rwtucker
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
My TCAS has factory settings. It sounds like yours has been set to ignore aural callouts in high traffic. Were you able to select that in a configuration or perhaps you have a different software revision?Colin wrote:. . . I didn't get that much from the TCAS.
- Colin
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Re: Shutting up the TAWS
Might have a different software revision since it is a DA42 with ADS-B, which is an odd duck.
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
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