Removing G1000 from a Da40?

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Pilot55
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Pilot55 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:42 am

Here is my panel. I have never had a issue with aspens. the aspens are new pro max with SV and geo referenced charts. each aspen has its own ahars as well as the G5. I am replacing the audio panel and the 530 with GTN 750 and remote audio. If I could only replace the KAP 140 with garmin 500.
I have as I said earlier GDL 88 adsb in and out with GPSS on the aspens.
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Antoine » Fri Jun 21, 2019 6:39 pm

TimS wrote:
Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:35 pm

Ditch the G5 and go with either Dynon Or the G3X. Both of which are from the experimental space and much cheaper, more capable and have been certified on selected hardware via STC,

Tim
Are these certified on the DA40 Timothy? (I really do not know)
Bret thank you for the pics. Looks very nice. Well done. ALL. notice that Bret's aircraft does not have the 3 pack of backup instruments in the middle - just the G5! This is good to know when doing panel downgrades!

My "Avionics 2020" vision (tested in the Extra 400) is that I am no longer willing to be trapped in a closed/proprietary/slow moving environment, whether Garmin, Dynon, Aspen.
It is ok to have a GTN750 and a G5 or similar, but part of the vision is to shift functionality to a panel mounted, permanently powered and suitably cooled iPad.

Now look at what this panel mounted 12.9" iPad Pro with 4G datalink does for me day in and day out (purchase price: 1 AMU)

- Synthetic Vision WITH attitude
- Moving map with a choice of wonderful map backgrounds (Open Street/VFR/IFR) and weather overlays.
- Real time FPL download from GTN750 (I never use the upload, the GTN is good enough and it is closer to me)
- Charts - IFR and VFR
- On-line AIP and chart download as needed (VFR)
- On line data and software update
- File flight plan updates if necessary
- And a whole bunch of nice connected apps (try windy.com)

It takes some discipline: This is my AIRCRAFT''s iPad, not my personal toy. No email, no messaging, no auto updates, no iCloud etc...

Awesome value, amazing user interface - imagine charts on a 12.9" iPad screen with the 2 finger zoom...

The DA40 probably does not have enough room for the 12.9" version, but even with 10 inches it is one hell of a boost to safety and flying pleasure.
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by TimS » Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:18 pm

Antoine,

Neither the Dynon or G3X are certified for the DA-40. I did not think the G5 was on the list for primary instruments; therefore you are pursuing an STC,
If you are chasing the STC, you may as well start with the most complete and lowest cost solution you can, also both the Dynon and the G3X are significantly newer hardware designs and therefore will have a longer life.

As for the iPad, I have seen multiple "airplane" iPads die; especially in the unpressurized airplanes which often do not have a/c. The just are not heat tolerant. If you really are going to go with a tablet solution, look for one of the rugged work tablets running Android with Garmin Pilot. Basically the same functionality, but in a hardware package which is designed for harsher conditions.

Tim
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Antoine » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:33 pm

Oh no I would not want to pursue an STC!
Agree they are sensitive to overheating - but this is fixed as you said or by adding a well designed cooling solution from the back.
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by krellis » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:46 pm

TimS wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 7:18 pm
Antoine,

Neither the Dynon or G3X are certified for the DA-40. I did not think the G5 was on the list for primary instruments; therefore you are pursuing an STC,
If you are chasing the STC, you may as well start with the most complete and lowest cost solution you can, also both the Dynon and the G3X are significantly newer hardware designs and therefore will have a longer life.

As for the iPad, I have seen multiple "airplane" iPads die; especially in the unpressurized airplanes which often do not have a/c. The just are not heat tolerant. If you really are going to go with a tablet solution, look for one of the rugged work tablets running Android with Garmin Pilot. Basically the same functionality, but in a hardware package which is designed for harsher conditions.

Tim
Interesting, since both the DA20 and 40 are on the AML for the G3X. Granted, G1000 versions are excluded, but since the G1000 was installed using an STC, I believe it could be removed via a 337. Then you might have a non-G1000 version of the DA40 and could install the G3X (which is fabulous by the way).
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by arksat » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:26 pm

This is great to know! I hope TXi will have AML for DA40.
BRS wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 4:04 am
From what I can tell in my logs from the factory is that the G1000 was installed as an STC. It's not mentioned on the TC
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Rich » Fri Jun 21, 2019 11:29 pm

iPad overheating:
Hmm, let's see, I've been using, over the course of 9 years, 3 different iPad minis. Two are in use these days (my wife uses hers when we fly). Hers overheated and turned off temporarily exactly once - when she had it on her lap and enclosed in a protective case. It overheated because 1) the sun shone directly on the screen and 2) no heat exchange could occur out of the back surface due to the case it was in. It came back to life in 2 minutes. Correcting conditions 1 and 2, it has not done it since. Mine have always been mounted on the stick. This positions it such that the sun only hits the edge of it and airflow is free to convect across the back, due to the design of the RAM mount. My iPads mounted this way have overheated not once - ever. If I feel the back with my hand in flight it'll be maybe slightly warm to the touch. If the vent is open it's not even that warm.
2002 DA40: MT, PF, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal.
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by TimS » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:38 am

krellis wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:46 pm
Interesting, since both the DA20 and 40 are on the AML for the G3X. Granted, G1000 versions are excluded, but since the G1000 was installed using an STC, I believe it could be removed via a 337. Then you might have a non-G1000 version of the DA40 and could install the G3X (which is fabulous by the way).
If the G1000 was done via STC instead of on the TC; how was the AML limited?
This maybe the simpler solution and lower cost solution for Diamond and Garmin to pursue for all legacy G1000s.

Tim
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by pietromarx » Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:06 am

Let's think on this for a moment. It is not unlike installing a G1000 into a King Air ... :)

Seriously, though, to remove the G1000 from a DA40 would be rather interesting from a pure logistics point of view. The G1000 was installed under an STC obtained by Garmin. Removing it ... well, I'm neither an A&P nor a lawyer, so I can't really say.

It seems to me that the issues we see with the G1000 and lack of software and hardware updates are because Garmin got the STC for the G1000 installation in the already-existing DA40 and the interests of Diamond and Garmin subsequently diverged. Garmin found new territories in larger fleets of target markets. This resulted in Diamond's customers being annoyed by an issue that was actually controlled by Garmin. Ironically, this type of surgery would benefit the very company which caused Diamond owners so much ... already.

This said, such an operation would include:

1. Removing the G1000 PFD, MFD, and audio interface from the panel. The resulting panel would have to then be rebuilt as this has to be about 50% of the space on it. Don't forget that the backlighting, circuit breaker panel, and so forth are all built around the G1000 user interface boxes.

2. For those with a KAP140 the hidden turn indicator would have to be moved, too.

3. The engine indicator sensing box (GEA) would have to be replaced as it is G1000-specific. There are kits available, but ...

4. The AHRS and GDC would be replaced with an ADAHRS.

5. The magnetometer may also need to be replaced (out at the end of the wing).

6. The transponder / ADS-B will need to either have a new panel interface or be connected into the G3X / whatever.

7. Then you have the equipment rack under the back. That would be an interesting replacement.

8. The installer would have quite a bit of rewiring and bonding work to do around the airplane.

9. Finally, there are the autopilot servos. These would need to be replaced, though we would still have to find an elevator trim servo.

At the end of the day you would have a new set of boxes with new software functionality. For those who need WAAS, it would be good (and expensive), but for everyone else it would be nice new backgrounds on the maps and maybe a few seconds of time savings for flight plan transfers. There would be no changes in how the airplane flies (though maybe some benefits in W&B or not).

Personally, as annoying as the G1000 software situation is, the system is fine for my needs. Given what I know now, I might have bought a round dial DA40 and upgraded to glass. Perhaps Diamond should start producing non-G1000 airplanes again?
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Boatguy » Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:31 am

If the G1000 was added as an STC, then owners are free to upgrade and reconfigure avionics as they like. It seems analogous to literally thousands of owners who purchased a six pack airplane and then upgraded the panel over time. Money is spent and benefits are realized.

For DA40 owners, this fairly quickly results in a plane with more modern and up to date avionics than a brand new plane from Diamond. And with the commitment of continued sw updates from Garmin. For example Garmin has announced updates to incorporate new FIS-B weather products (e.g., icing levels) and other incremental improvements (e.g., 3D audio) that are not available to the purchaser of a new NXi equipped Diamond airplane.

Here is just one example of a recent announcement of sw upgrades for the GTN 650/750:

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/blog/aviat ... U.S.%29%29
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