Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Any DA40 related topics

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Rich »

I concur with Antoine's numbers, using his assumptions. As far as I can determine, removing the G1000 would produce a net weight savings of 25 lb. and improve the empty CG by something like .75 in. Not trivial in light of the 50-gallon challenge.

BUT (you knew it was coming, right?) :
1. If you have neither the nose ballast nor the AL prop, or you're unwilling to part with the AL prop, that's the limit of the useful load improvement.
2. If you have the nose ballast and remove it, you get the extra 17 lb. but put the empty CG pretty much back where it was.
3. If you have one of the AL props, removing it costs additional bucks and also will put the CG back where it was, but with a 13-16 lb. weight saving.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Charles K
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:46 pm
First Name: Charles
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N5WU
Airports: KCCR
Has thanked: 26 times
Been thanked: 98 times

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Charles K »

My 2004 shows G1000 installed via STC - in fact I use that STC to obtain part numbers for the G1000 plane which is not in the AMM for my plane. It shows steam gauge parts. STC shows parts such as EGT sensors, etc.
Charles
KCCR Based
N5WU - 2004 G1000 DA40 40.400, GTX345R ADS-B, WAAS Upgraded in 2021 via Diamond Upgrade Program
IFR and ME Rated - Advanced Ground Instructor Rated
User avatar
Flyairth
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:15 pm
First Name: Ian
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N732DS
Airports: KCGS
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Flyairth »

Why has the starting point of this conversation been the non-WAAS G1000 (e.g. 2004+) airplane. Why not start with a non G1000 from 2003 or earlier? Were there other significant improvements to the airframe?
User avatar
BRS
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:44 am
First Name: Brock
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N8QQ
Airports: W52
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 94 times

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by BRS »

I was looking at the FAA STC's for the DA40 and found this one which seems to be a path for upgrading non-waas and other G1000 to GFC700 & WAAS. Since it was amended Jan 2018 I can't believe I'm the first one to see this. So what am I missing?

STC - SA01444WI-D
http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guida ... enDocument

After cancelling a flight this afternoon because I was unable to update data-bases I'm not sure I'd bother upgrading the G1000. No doubt, though, it was probably something stupid it did or didn't do.
40.649 Sold (Still miss the DA40 from time to time)
Fly and EAB Sportsman
User avatar
BRS
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 313
Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:44 am
First Name: Brock
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N8QQ
Airports: W52
Has thanked: 31 times
Been thanked: 94 times

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by BRS »

Charles K wrote: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:56 pm My 2004 shows G1000 installed via STC - in fact I use that STC to obtain part numbers for the G1000 plane which is not in the AMM for my plane. It shows steam gauge parts. STC shows parts such as EGT sensors, etc.
Charles,
I looked up the STC on the FAA website but didn't get anything as detailed as you mention. Were are the details listed?
40.649 Sold (Still miss the DA40 from time to time)
Fly and EAB Sportsman
Antoine
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm
First Name: Antoine
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N121AG
Airports: LSGG
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Antoine »

Flyairth wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:19 pm Why has the starting point of this conversation been the non-WAAS G1000 (e.g. 2004+) airplane. Why not start with a non G1000 from 2003 or earlier? Were there other significant improvements to the airframe?
Ian, I did not know that the G1000 had been available prior to 2004.
There is no reason for excluding these aircraft from the discussion!
I see 3 major categories
A - G1000 KAP140
B - G1000 GFC700 non WAAS
C - G1000 WAAS

Obviously, category B is a challenge because the AP must be replaced too.
They are the "worst" candidates due to the cost/return benefit. In theory, if these were downgraded from GFC700 the AP hardware could be sold do an A aircraft owner wanting to keep the G1000 and upgrade the AP - In theory.... In reality I fear that the B aircraft have a very narrow niche as a "nice VFR aircraft" with G1000 non WAAS... and anything else is just disproportionately costly vs the result.
User avatar
mhoran
4 Diamonds Member
4 Diamonds Member
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 11:56 pm
First Name: Matt
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N269RB
Airports: KLDJ
Has thanked: 121 times
Been thanked: 244 times

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by mhoran »

Antoine wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:52 am Obviously, category B is a challenge because the AP must be replaced too.
They are the "worst" candidates due to the cost/return benefit. In theory, if these were downgraded from GFC700 the AP hardware could be sold do an A aircraft owner wanting to keep the G1000 and upgrade the AP - In theory.... In reality I fear that the B aircraft have a very narrow niche as a "nice VFR aircraft" with G1000 non WAAS... and anything else is just disproportionately costly vs the result.
I don't follow how the lack of WAAS makes a GFC700 equipped aircraft a "nice VFR aircraft". While the lack of WAAS is the reason I'm watching this thread, our 2007 DA40 has proven quite capable in IFR. We're based in the US, so maybe that has something to do with it. But our home base only has a circling approach, and our alternate (and alternate alternate) all have at least one ILS. Most of the airports I fly to are equipped with an ILS as well. So far I haven't had to scrub a flight for lack of WAAS, and the 30 day VOR check is a minor annoyance.

I'd mostly like to avoid vendor lock in, after an expensive $16,000 avionics bill this year. Garmin has a monopoly on my airplane, and it's infuriating.
User avatar
Flyairth
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:15 pm
First Name: Ian
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N732DS
Airports: KCGS
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Flyairth »

Antoine wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:52 am
Flyairth wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:19 pm Why has the starting point of this conversation been the non-WAAS G1000 (e.g. 2004+) airplane. Why not start with a non G1000 from 2003 or earlier? Were there other significant improvements to the airframe?
Ian, I did not know that the G1000 had been available prior to 2004.
Sorry, that's not what I meant. There aren't that I know of.

Question is: why buy and remove a G1000 when there are steam gauge DA40s you could upgrade?
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Rich »

Flyairth wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:58 am
Antoine wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:52 am
Flyairth wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:19 pm Why has the starting point of this conversation been the non-WAAS G1000 (e.g. 2004+) airplane. Why not start with a non G1000 from 2003 or earlier? Were there other significant improvements to the airframe?
Ian, I did not know that the G1000 had been available prior to 2004.
Sorry, that's not what I meant. There aren't that I know of.

Question is: why buy and remove a G1000 when there are steam gauge DA40s you could upgrade?
I could see 3 reasons;
1. SG DA40’s are pretty rare.
2. Many of these lack various other upgrades one might want: MTOW/extended baggage, Powerflow, etc.
3. You already own a G1000 DA40.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Rich »

mhoran wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:43 am
I don't follow how the lack of WAAS makes a GFC700 equipped aircraft a "nice VFR aircraft". While the lack of WAAS is the reason I'm watching this thread, our 2007 DA40 has proven quite capable in IFR. We're based in the US, so maybe that has something to do with it. But our home base only has a circling approach, and our alternate (and alternate alternate) all have at least one ILS. Most of the airports I fly to are equipped with an ILS as well. So far I haven't had to scrub a flight for lack of WAAS, and the 30 day VOR check is a minor annoyance.
A good point. There are many thousands of planes out there flown IFR that lack WAAS. I do find it makes all sorts of things easier for me, with exactly one ILS anywhere near my home airport, which has 2 LP+V approaches I can use. But it’s not indispensable.

BTW, Matt, I’m hanging out today in my home town of Carteret. A mere stone’s throw (OK, you’d have to be close to Superman to reach it with such a throw) from LDJ.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
Post Reply