Removing G1000 from a Da40?

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mhoran
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by mhoran »

Rich wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:37 pm A good point. There are many thousands of planes out there flown IFR that lack WAAS. I do find it makes all sorts of things easier for me, with exactly one ILS anywhere near my home airport, which has 2 LP+V approaches I can use. But it’s not indispensable.

BTW, Matt, I’m hanging out today in my home town of Carteret. A mere stone’s throw (OK, you’d have to be close to Superman to reach it with such a throw) from LDJ.
On the WAAS point, I totally agree. We postponed the WAAS upgrade when it was available because it was so darn expensive, and neither I nor my co-owner were yet instrument rated. Now that we’re both rated, there’s definitely some added benefit, but still not enough to justify what Garmin was asking when the upgrade was available — and definitely not when I see what the NXi is going to cost.

Point being, while it may be quite costly to rip out the G1000 from my airplane, the fact that I just had to spend $16,000 to equip for the ADS-B mandate, swap out a busted GIA-63 and broken MFD, only means there’s going to be more cost to maintain this legacy panel going forward. Eventually, Garmin is going to stop providing the parts needed to fix this thing, and then what? Not to mention database upgrades...

When I talk with my mechanic about all the awesome stuff he’s doing with experimental stuff that’s now installable in certified aircraft, I’m incredibly jealous. He was also able to equip for ADS-B for much, much less than I. Sigh...

Re: Carteret, I know the area well from the air! I happen to be on the other side of the planet at the moment (Naka Island, Thailand) but do let me know the next time you’re in the area! Always great to meet other Diamond owners.
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Antoine »

Honestly i think the most likely candidate for swapping out a G1000 would be a DA40 owner stuck with a pre GFC700 G1000 and wanting to jail-break the plane.
It would take a crazy guy like me to buy such a plane with the objective of taking avionics apart :)

And as to ILS in the US... I thought they were being decommissioned?

In France, after a late start, they are throwing them out as far as they can . Simultaneously, RNAV approaches are blossoming all over the place...
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Rich
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Rich »

ILS is not being decommissioned anywhere I’m aware of. Maybe at some marginal locations where it’s not used. And I think it’s very rare for an ILS to be added where it doesn’t currently exist. There are some VORs being shut down and NDB approaches going away. Essentially WAAS is not to be required equipment to file/fly IFR. Nor, for that matter, is GPS of any kind (or even a transponder if you limit where you fly and don’t mind making position reports galore :) ).

Technically, BTW, LPV approaches are not categorized as precision approaches.
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by TimS »

Antoine wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 3:07 pm Honestly i think the most likely candidate for swapping out a G1000 would be a DA40 owner stuck with a pre GFC700 G1000 and wanting to jail-break the plane.
It would take a crazy guy like me to buy such a plane with the objective of taking avionics apart :)

And as to ILS in the US... I thought they were being decommissioned?

In France, after a late start, they are throwing them out as far as they can . Simultaneously, RNAV approaches are blossoming all over the place...
VORs and a lot of associated approaches are going away.
I think all NDB approaches are being decommissioned.
ILS is a case by case basis. This will come down to money, if no airliner service, and it breaks and is expensive I expect it to go away.

Tim
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Antoine »

Tim this is exactly what is happening in France. These things require periodic calibration and they get decommissioned at that time. Very fast pace.
Rich: generally I prefer using an ILS when available but LPV+V is just as good seen from the cockpit and I believe it is equivalent in terms of precision?
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by Rich »

Antoine wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:52 pm Tim this is exactly what is happening in France. These things require periodic calibration and they get decommissioned at that time. Very fast pace.
Rich: generally I prefer using an ILS when available but LPV+V is just as good seen from the cockpit and I believe it is equivalent in terms of precision?
To clarify, in the United States a LPV will often (not always) have the same minimums as ILS and is easily as precise. But for training purposes for some situations there can be a requirement for a executing a “precision approach” and that requirement might not be met by flying an LPV. I think it’s because LPV’s are, frankly, easier to fly. To get minimums for a given LPV approach to be that 200 ft. DH it must be supported by approach lighting systems similar to al ILS. But still, you’ll see some with 250 ft where such lighting systems are not installed.

At my airport what I have are LP approaches, which are WAAS approaches that theoretically lack vertical guidance. But due to the FAA relaxing rules, the providers (in my case, Jeppesen) of the nav data are permitted to provide such guidance, so what I get comes up as LP+V. Minimums are higher than a LPV but I can couple the approach and fly a nice smooth approach to minimums (400 ft. For one, 500 for the other.) Lacking WAAS, minimums are 700 and 600 ft, respectively, as they’re just plain, old LNAV.
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by greg »

mhoran wrote: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:43 am I don't follow how the lack of WAAS makes a GFC700 equipped aircraft a "nice VFR aircraft". While the lack of WAAS is the reason I'm watching this thread, our 2007 DA40 has proven quite capable in IFR. We're based in the US, so maybe that has something to do with it. But our home base only has a circling approach, and our alternate (and alternate alternate) all have at least one ILS. Most of the airports I fly to are equipped with an ILS as well. So far I haven't had to scrub a flight for lack of WAAS, and the 30 day VOR check is a minor annoyance.
Being in the US does make a difference. In Australia, they've already shutdown most of the VORs and NDBs. Becuase I've only got a non-WAAS G1000 , if I need an alternate it has to be "serviced by a ground-based navigation system". My nearest VOR is 85 miles away (followed by a 2+ hour drive home). And the nearest usable ILS is 250 NM (excluding a military airport and Sydney, both of which would require declaring an emergency to use).

So, for me, if the weather is close to minimums, I don't fly. I've even considered installing an ADF to allow use of an alternate 40NM away, but I really dislike flying NDB approaches...

I'm quite annoyed at Garmin for discontinuing the GIA63W without notice - I probably would have upgraded if I'd known early enough.
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Re: Removing G1000 from a Da40?

Post by TimS »

Reading these, I really wish I had paid attention to the the guys on BT who actually work on this stuff.
Assuming I followed it correctly, RNAV/LPV approaches have gone through three phases of policy.
Phase 1: Basically mimic existing approaches usually VOR (GPS/LNAV) or ILS (LPV).
Phase 2: FAA starts to role out LPV at airports without ILS. Uses a TERPS guidline that in many ways is slightly more conservative than ILS. As a result, LPV is at best as good as ILS.
Phase 3: FAA has a new TERPS guidline. This is less than a year or two (I think). The updated guidelines actually in many cases will produce a lower approach than ILS will. The only thing better than the newest LPV approach is a Cat II or Cat III ILS.

I think it was by 2025 all LPV approaches in the USA will be updated to the new TERPS guidelines.

Tim
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Re: Just Discovered GTN 750

Post by Scotsman58 »

So I'm interested by Antoine's suggestion that one could remove a non-WAAS, non-GFC-700 G1000 from a DA40 and install a new panel with G500s, a GTN 750, etc. I have a 2005 DA40 with a G1000 that fits that description and am concerned about future obsolescence. Antoine's solution sounds pretty expensive and suppose might give up some integration that's built into the G1000 (but then again, in my system the KAP-140 autopilot is not integrated) -- but it would offer LPV approaches, depiction of holds, visual approaches, etc. Also -- very important -- future upgradeability would not be dependent on Diamond. I guess my question beyond the obvious expense would be what regulatory permissions might be required for such a makeover? Also, would I have any option to upgrade the autopilot to something like a GFC-500?
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Re: Just Discovered GTN 750

Post by BRS »

@scotsman58

I believe the solution would be to do a 337 to remove the G1000 STC (this is paperwork only) then a 337 to install and upgrade a supposedly steam-gauge aircraft. If you pulled the entire G1000 (wires and all) I believe there might be some good resale value for it on the used market. I'm in the same boat.
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