Almost $4k when you include the shipping costs. There is also a 4-6 week lead time.Rich wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:27 pmI'm pondering getting an A2 (plenty for a DA40-180) to replace my aging Power Tow. What was the price of the A3?
What tug to get?
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- beetlebug
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Re: What tug to get?
- Boatguy
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Re: What tug to get?
My ramps were custom made by a former hangar neighbor, left behind when he moved away and then gifted to me by the current resident who has a C182 with big tires. I'm currently having them beefed up because the metal bent under the weight of my DA40. I'm guessing you need at least 1/8" steel plate, maybe 3/16".
The problem is not the tug's power, the tug has plenty of power. Here's my experience and approach.
Setup: 40' hangar, 38'2" wingspan = 11" clearance on each side. Hangar doors ride on tracks about 1" high, two tracks about 8" apart. And just to keep it lively, there is a door stop dead center which is maybe 1.5" high.
Two parking stops are attached to the hangar floor at carefully measured positions such that if the main gear is on the stops, the wing tip will not hit the side of the hangar, and the tail will not reach the back of the hangar.
Ramps are carefully positioned over the tracks for the main gear, and a funky wood ramp spans the central "door stop" for the nose gear.
Pulling the plane out I use low speed to get it rolling, then about 2 seconds of high speed to give it some momentum to get over the ramps. The nose gear is never a problem, all the weight is on the main gear. Once out, I remove the fastpin that allows the Best Tug to articulate and steer the plane to the middle of the alley and onto the taxi line.
Pushing the plane back in is the big issue. Because the tug is pushing the nose wheel, and the nose gear has a big stack of rubber shock absorbers, we're "pushing a rope", it's not a rigid connection. Also, because the nose wheel is castering, the articulating Best Tug creates a double articulation which simply doesn't work. I insert the fastpin in the Best Tug so it is fixed, no articulation. There are still two big problems.
First, if the main gear don't hit the ramps at the same time, the plane will spin. The side that hits first stops, and the plane spins to that side. It's the same effect as the differential braking we use to taxi. But into a narrow hangar, that spin is very dangerous. I line up the plane, which frequently takes several back and forth cycles. With no articulation I have to sort of lift the tug to turn the nose wheel. This is also made slightly more difficult because at least on my plane the nose wheel is offset from the centerline a bit so going straight back is not as obvious as it should be. Eventually the plane is resting with both main gear against the ramps.
Second, if there is not sufficient momentum / inertia / speed when you hit the ramps, the nose gear will push the nose of the plane up fairly dramatically and absorb all the energy that should go into moving the plane over the ramps. So I pull the plane out a few feet, then reverse direction and use "high" power to get up a little momentum and the plane sort of hops over the ramps. No more speed than necessary in case they aren't lined up perfectly. Back to low power and it rolls back to the parking stops. I think this is more stressful than landing!
It's important to have the proper tire pressures. I also had to shorten the Best Tugs "kickstand" so it would clear my center ramp.
I put some Aero Protect pieces around the nose wheel connection point to protect the paint on the pants.
Final caution, be sure the Best Tug is OFF when you put it away. I've left mine on twice and once I completely killed the batteries requiring their replacement. They say the new models will have an auto shut off.
The problem is not the tug's power, the tug has plenty of power. Here's my experience and approach.
Setup: 40' hangar, 38'2" wingspan = 11" clearance on each side. Hangar doors ride on tracks about 1" high, two tracks about 8" apart. And just to keep it lively, there is a door stop dead center which is maybe 1.5" high.
Two parking stops are attached to the hangar floor at carefully measured positions such that if the main gear is on the stops, the wing tip will not hit the side of the hangar, and the tail will not reach the back of the hangar.
Ramps are carefully positioned over the tracks for the main gear, and a funky wood ramp spans the central "door stop" for the nose gear.
Pulling the plane out I use low speed to get it rolling, then about 2 seconds of high speed to give it some momentum to get over the ramps. The nose gear is never a problem, all the weight is on the main gear. Once out, I remove the fastpin that allows the Best Tug to articulate and steer the plane to the middle of the alley and onto the taxi line.
Pushing the plane back in is the big issue. Because the tug is pushing the nose wheel, and the nose gear has a big stack of rubber shock absorbers, we're "pushing a rope", it's not a rigid connection. Also, because the nose wheel is castering, the articulating Best Tug creates a double articulation which simply doesn't work. I insert the fastpin in the Best Tug so it is fixed, no articulation. There are still two big problems.
First, if the main gear don't hit the ramps at the same time, the plane will spin. The side that hits first stops, and the plane spins to that side. It's the same effect as the differential braking we use to taxi. But into a narrow hangar, that spin is very dangerous. I line up the plane, which frequently takes several back and forth cycles. With no articulation I have to sort of lift the tug to turn the nose wheel. This is also made slightly more difficult because at least on my plane the nose wheel is offset from the centerline a bit so going straight back is not as obvious as it should be. Eventually the plane is resting with both main gear against the ramps.
Second, if there is not sufficient momentum / inertia / speed when you hit the ramps, the nose gear will push the nose of the plane up fairly dramatically and absorb all the energy that should go into moving the plane over the ramps. So I pull the plane out a few feet, then reverse direction and use "high" power to get up a little momentum and the plane sort of hops over the ramps. No more speed than necessary in case they aren't lined up perfectly. Back to low power and it rolls back to the parking stops. I think this is more stressful than landing!
It's important to have the proper tire pressures. I also had to shorten the Best Tugs "kickstand" so it would clear my center ramp.
I put some Aero Protect pieces around the nose wheel connection point to protect the paint on the pants.
Final caution, be sure the Best Tug is OFF when you put it away. I've left mine on twice and once I completely killed the batteries requiring their replacement. They say the new models will have an auto shut off.
Last edited by Boatguy on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- Boatguy
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Re: What tug to get?
I was going to get an A2, but they sold me an A3 with a "show discount" at an Expo in Hayward for the same price. A3 with light, tax, shipping, etc. was $3,485.
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Re: What tug to get?
How much was that, if you don’t mind me askinggordsh wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 5:14 pm I use the Best Tugs (https://www.besttugs.com/pages/bravo-tug-line) and can move the plane in and out of extremely tight spaces with the wheel pant on. Its not the cheapest one out there but its one of the best investments I have made in owning the airplane next to purchasing a hanger. Also the support is amazing, I can call Mike Patey anytime and I get on-the-phone support. For repairs, replacement parts are at my hanger next business day via Fedex. The tug also as (1) Air compressor for putting air in the tires (2) APU for powering the aircraft (3) Tire pressure gauge (4) Head Lamp for night time operations. You van see some info on it here (https://youtu.be/g6FSdSBCTrY)
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Re: What tug to get?
Three photos of some low-cost DIY hangar ramps we use are attached.
Each ramp is made up of four pieces of scrap wood cut at angles that match the profile of the sliding hangar door rails. The four pieces of wood make no more than a 1/8" rise at each point so a floor-mounted winch at the back of the hangar has no problem pulling the plane into the hangar. The pieces are held together with a couple of strips of duct tape (not shown) so they can be moved into place as a single unit.
Each ramp is made up of four pieces of scrap wood cut at angles that match the profile of the sliding hangar door rails. The four pieces of wood make no more than a 1/8" rise at each point so a floor-mounted winch at the back of the hangar has no problem pulling the plane into the hangar. The pieces are held together with a couple of strips of duct tape (not shown) so they can be moved into place as a single unit.
2010 DA40 XLS, N123MZ, KHIO
https://youtu.be/LuQr6mGxffg
https://youtu.be/LuQr6mGxffg
- Boatguy
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Re: What tug to get?
When departing, do you pull the plane out with the tow bar?MarkA wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:22 am Three photos of some low-cost DIY hangar ramps we use are attached.
Each ramp is made up of four pieces of scrap wood cut at angles that match the profile of the sliding hangar door rails. The four pieces of wood make no more than a 1/8" rise at each point so a floor-mounted winch at the back of the hangar has no problem pulling the plane into the hangar. The pieces are held together with a couple of strips of duct tape (not shown) so they can be moved into place as a single unit.
How powerful a winch do you use/need?
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Re: What tug to get?
Yep, we use the tow bar to pull the plane out which is doable by a single person without the directional control issues found when trying to push the plane backwards using the the tow bar.
The winch is the one from Aircraft Spruce (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... haw100.php) which comes with 75' of cable and 100' of control cord with an automatic safety shut off. Cable speed is 30 ft. per minute.
The winch is the one from Aircraft Spruce (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... haw100.php) which comes with 75' of cable and 100' of control cord with an automatic safety shut off. Cable speed is 30 ft. per minute.
2010 DA40 XLS, N123MZ, KHIO
https://youtu.be/LuQr6mGxffg
https://youtu.be/LuQr6mGxffg
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Re: What tug to get?
I like that set up but was told by the factory not to do this. Makes sense to me however.MarkA wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:24 am Yep, we use the tow bar to pull the plane out which is doable by a single person without the directional control issues found when trying to push the plane backwards using the the tow bar.
The winch is the one from Aircraft Spruce (https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/ ... haw100.php) which comes with 75' of cable and 100' of control cord with an automatic safety shut off. Cable speed is 30 ft. per minute.
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Re: What tug to get?
We have the A3 and at first I was cursing like a sailor. Then I called support, can you believe they answered on a Sunday!? Yes they did, they sent the wrong arms! Got the new ones and the mating or locking round thingie that goes in the circles was too big. They machined it down I still need it machined just a bit.
Now backing a trailer with a trailer is hard at fist, but I now have the hang of it. Like docking a single screw boat of any size, it takes a little practice. Sleek design, electric rechargeable, LED light, two speeds, easy on and off. What's not to like?
What's this about taking off wheel pant? Mine stays on. And I got the tape to protect the pant, but not from them. And I can get it over the rails fine but you have to be firm and know where you are going. I thought it would never work for me, but once I got it, that you have to make very small movements it was fine. Don't over steer the tug!
Now backing a trailer with a trailer is hard at fist, but I now have the hang of it. Like docking a single screw boat of any size, it takes a little practice. Sleek design, electric rechargeable, LED light, two speeds, easy on and off. What's not to like?
What's this about taking off wheel pant? Mine stays on. And I got the tape to protect the pant, but not from them. And I can get it over the rails fine but you have to be firm and know where you are going. I thought it would never work for me, but once I got it, that you have to make very small movements it was fine. Don't over steer the tug!
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Re: What tug to get?
Take a look at the YouTube video ( https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5BShoqQG2G8 ) that I did showing how I set up and use a Harbor Freight winch, with wireless remote, powered by a Harbor Freight portable power pack (so no electric AC is required), all for just over $100.
PM me if you have any questions.
I also have a MiniMax tug that I use to pull the plane from the hangar.
PM me if you have any questions.
I also have a MiniMax tug that I use to pull the plane from the hangar.