Updating 430W/530W databases

[Rich]

Upon further review the only subscription bundle available to me that makes sense costs $50/year more than I'm paying Jeppesen, but it does include terrain/obstacle subscription updates. The nav data coverage in this subscription is the same as my current Jepp, in case I want to make a trip to Buenos Aires

I can not sensibly do without including Canada, so Garmin does not have a straight nav data offering that works for me that doesn't cost far more than what I currently pay Jeppesen.

[perossichi]

When I got my plane in 2017, I did my homework and found Jepp was slightly cheaper than Garmin as Rich did. I just pull the chips monthly and update on my iMac. I figure that the Sierras have pretty much stayed the same so I don’t need terrain updates.

I’ve read about Elf Wombat but don’t see much difference between pulling the chips and updating in the hangar vs bringing them home in my flight bag. Rich— am I missing something here?

One problem is those chip connectors go bad after lots of insertion removal. My avionics shop has a huge jar of them for free, though.

I don’t know about others but these super-expensive data bases of a very small number of lat/longs strike me as a huge ripoff compared to foreflight which is continuously updated, including obstacles. But I need it for IFR. I only have the 530 with WAAS and a regular 430. The previous owner of my plane did not take advantage of the one-time low cost WAAS upgrades for these units.

Welcome to the wonderful world of the tiny GA market

[Rich]

I’ve read about Elf Wombat but don’t see much difference between pulling the chips and updating in the hangar vs bringing them home in my flight bag. Rich— am I missing something here?

One problem is those chip connectors go bad after lots of insertion removal. My avionics shop has a huge jar of them for free, though.

Wombat:
Some years back I had others using my plane. And I lived on Whidbey Island, while the plane was based at Paine Field, necessitating 4 ferry rides to shuttle back and forth. So I couldn't really take the chips home and update them and bring them back, it took too long. Certainly doing it all right on the day the update was required was problematic. So I had (and still have) a spare pair of data cards that are updated ahead of time and got swapped out at the appropriate time.

The strongest argument goes something like this: If I happen to be on a trip with the plane at just the wrong stretch of time, I don't want to be required to bring my Macbook with me just to refresh the databases. But I'll always have my iPhone with me. I keep the Wombat and Skybound G2 in my (very small, these days) flight bag, along with the spare data cards. So I can update any pair of the cards anywhere I happen to be in my travels.

My wife often travels with me and has FF on her iPad. I'm out of places to plug her in and she sometimes fails to top up the battery before leaving the house. I've used the Wombat to rescue her a couple of times in flight.

Cards and Adapters:
In 13 years of WAAS equipment I've never had the Skybound G2 (or the previous generation) adapter go bad. That's about 300 or so insert/removals so far in this G2 version. I have had a data card or 2 (the silver versions) go bad and have to be replaced. I really no longer need the duplicates, given the Wombat, as I have more flexibility in doing the updates, so they can be considered spares.

The WAAS cards retail for $245 apiece, as does the Wombat. The Skybound G2 adapter runs about $85, and Garmin's equivalent is about $70. I find it hard to believe any of these are sitting in a pile in a jar as handouts. I'm assuming they must have a cheap knockoff adapter they found somewhere. You do bring up a good point, though, as my Skybound is a single point of failure that might merit having a backup.

[perossichi]

Wow, I didn’t realize they were so expensive. The chips that is. My avionics shop really does have a jar of them. My 430 card went bad and I just burned a new chip out of the jar about a year ago. The tech volunteered that this has been a problem. They are a high volume Garmin dealer.

Obviously, we would all like to move to a world where all updates are wireless and there are no chips as in the new glass panels. But absent the 30k of upgrade, I’m happy to be still burning chips with the sky bound adapter.

[Rich]

Wow, I didn’t realize they were so expensive. The chips that is. My avionics shop really does have a jar of them. My 430 card went bad and I just burned a new chip out of the jar about a year ago. The tech volunteered that this has been a problem. They are a high volume Garmin dealer.

Obviously, we would all like to move to a world where all updates are wireless and there are no chips as in the new glass panels. But absent the 30k of upgrade, I’m happy to be still burning chips with the sky bound adapter.

The non-WAAS (8MB) cards retail for $200. Obviously a dealer might get them well below that but I suspect those in a jar were pulled from 530/430 units being pulled for upgrade, repair, or replacement by GTN, IFD, or whatever. If not, they're being uniquely generous. Using the Wombat still requires the Skybound adapter.

I've been dealing with the various update download mechanismss since 2002. The details have evolved over the year. The Skybound G2 is the third different adapter that evolved from the original, larger multi-adapter Jeppeses supplied. There was a point I had to boot my Macbook to Windows only to update the cards, until the JDM for MacOS came out. The original WAAS cards were "silver", which they no longer supply. These were the ones that failed. I still have 2 and they remain functional. The current "orange" labels are somehow different, and the update process actually ennunciates which type it sees in the Skybound. I haven't had an orange failure yet, FWIW.

The WAAS update for the Americas these days is a bit over 7MB and has grown over time. I'm curious what the non-WAAS size is.

[Rich]

Switching to the Garmin bundle from Jeppesen makes economic sense for my situation IFF I feel it worthwhile to update my terrain data more frequently than once every few years (or ever, for that matter). On the other hand, an additional $50/month isn't a large uptick.

For the moment there is also the Wombat factor. It's a viable backup to the computer. One example: Last year Mac OS Catalina came out. The Jeppesen JDM (and a few other apps) needed to be updated for compatibility. It didn't take long (a couple of weeks) for the JDM fix to be available, but this was an example of a case where my Macbook wasn't available to load the cards and I used my iPhone/Wombat to update the cards.

Computers aren't invulnerable, not even Macs. Some years back I had the hard disk fail. It wasn't expensive to replace, but it took a handful of days to get it done. That was far enough back I didn't have an alternative mechanism for loading. Luckily it didn't happen during an update cycle, but it certainly could have.

[perossichi]

I assumed the chips are from upgrades. But there are WAAS chips in the jar as well. Not new but saved me the hassle.

I’m not sure generous is the right word as I’ve spent a fair amount on installs of the 345 and G5, but I am grateful.

$200 or $245 for a memory card that holds under 32MB is my idea of a total ripoff. GA is so completely full of out of date technology. It still amazes me that there are RS232 cables used in avionics which haven’t been used in computers since the 80s. These all go so well with our engines that were certificated in 1960. Magnetos? You must be kidding me. I feel ridiculous telling students about our independent and redundant ignition system.

WAAS navigation devices (530W) that don’t tell you your altitude and what the min alt is on that flight segment and don’t know about victor airways.

Sometimes it just gets to me. Sorry to complain.

[Rich]

I have little problem with the GNS units' design and limitations. Lack of airways is an inconvenience, but I'm not sure that how reliably the data could be acquired when the design was undertaken in the 1990's. Consider that the units always covered all the Americas, not just the US.

Contrary to prior opinion, RS232 was in wide use in the computer industry all through the 90's. It remains in common use for certain electronic field equipment to this day. I recently purchased a USB-C/RS232 (DB15) for a modest cost. There is all plenty of information out there by people still having to use RS232-based terminal emulation on their Macs and PCs in the pursuit of their work and hobbies. For example, there is even a special-purpose terminal app on the app store (called Serial) for MAC to do this sort of thing.

I got the above adapter in order to run diagnostics on my KAP140. This uses an RS232 terminal interface to plug into that circular jack via a cord with the plug on one end and a DB15 connector to your laptop. A technician used this to analyze a problem and load a software update into it in 2004. He left me the adapter cable.

Which brings up another issue: The GNS units do not operate in isolation. They were built to be able to connect with existing equipment of the time. Hence the RS232 and ARINC connections, with lots of spares for expansion. This has allowed some subsequent capabilities, such as feeding GPS position to my transponder and (should I desire) my ELT. Now my newly-installed FS210 is also so supplied, which in turn allows the integration of Foreflight into the 530W, obviating the need for airways in the unit itself. The units can also be used to display traffic and weather, should I install certain other peripherals. In short they can connect to a wide variety of legacy and newly introduced equipment. And support for these GNS units by Garmin and Jeppesen remains good, albeit at a price. Of course, there are a truly impressive number of these units out there, which helps. This is more than 20 years after their introduction and 13 years after the WAAS capability.

[Rich]

Lest ye complain about the GNS series being primitive, would you rather have a G1000 in your Diamond right now?