Starting problems

Any DA40 related topics

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by Rich »

perossichi wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:01 pm I wonder if Rich could elaborate on the wiring problem: broken wire, broken or corroded terminal?

Thx
It was much more subtle. The insulation in the wire had somehow degraded such that it allowed the output of the SS to leak to ground, effectively shorting it out. Nothing visibly wrong. Another factor might be that the newer SS units pump out higher voltage than the one from back when my plane was delivered.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by Rich »

perossichi wrote: Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:58 pm SureStart is the new brand name for the SlickStart. Available at Aircraft spruce for $975.

I’m actually glad that we have this ignition system. Also called a “shower of sparks” system. It produces a series of sparks and is thought to be superior to an impulse coupler which wears out.

Note that I believe an electronic ignition system is only approved to replace one mag. I believe it is the right mag. So even if you have an electronic ignition, you are still dependent on the SlickStart/SureStart system to start the plane. Of course it is ridiculous that the FAA won’t approve an all electronic ignition system. My guess is that I will not live to see that day.
"Shower of sparks" is actually not really accurate. That was an old Bendix system that worked differently.

The Electronic ignitions can be used to replace either mag. In my case it was the left, replacing the SS, though I have left the latter inoperative mounted in place should I ever decide to revert.

The FAA does allow all-electronic ignition systems but there must be independent, standby power source(s) for the ignition. As one who has lost all electrical power flying at night over NE Arizona, I can tell you you do not want to have the ignition system go down also. I also once had this happen on a Motorcycle with an electronic ignition (battery died while riding) and the bike simply shut down. Same thing in a car once when the ground cable from the alternator to the engine broke loose.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Toddf
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 2:28 pm
First Name: Todd
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N222GF
Airports: 79C
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by Toddf »

I am not sure if this is the same issue but my 2002 won’t fire until I release the key. Same for hot or cold starts but the hot start can be tricky. On cold start I hold the key for 1 or 2 revolutions and release and she starts right up but if hold the key it will just turn forever without starting. Does this sound like the same issue?
User avatar
DaveS1900
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun May 06, 2018 1:09 am
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N521DD
Airports: I74 Urbana Ohio
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 28 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by DaveS1900 »

There is some confusion in the thread here about "electronic ignition" and the surestart/slickstart.
Surestart/Slickstart is for starting only. It is on the left mag and replaces an impulse coupler.

I have two regular (non-electronic) mags and on the left mag I have the surestart/slickstart. So it has nothing to do with electronic ignition which replaces the mags altogether.

If you have trouble starting it could be the surestart/slickstart but it can also be other things as well. Having it turn over several times and then start seems to me its a fuel thing, either too much fuel, or not enough, at the beginning. Just my opinion.
Dave S.
User avatar
Rich
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 4592
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:40 pm
First Name: Rich
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N40XE
Airports: S39 Prineville OR
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 1180 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by Rich »

Toddf wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:44 am I am not sure if this is the same issue but my 2002 won’t fire until I release the key. Same for hot or cold starts but the hot start can be tricky. On cold start I hold the key for 1 or 2 revolutions and release and she starts right up but if hold the key it will just turn forever without starting. Does this sound like the same issue?
Probably. With the key in the start position, the "normal" (25 deg BTDC) function of both mags is disabled. The only possible spark is provided by the SS feeding current to the retard breaker in the left mag. If this feed doesn't function, then there is no way that any spark is happening. But the engine is spinning. (Mine cranks at a bit over 600 RPM.) You release the key while the engine is still rotating, which re-enables the normal circuit in both mags. If fuel mixture conditions are good enough, the engine starts up.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
User avatar
Toddf
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 2:28 pm
First Name: Todd
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N222GF
Airports: 79C
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by Toddf »

Rich, thanks For the info. My old instructor flew it last Friday and noticed the problem as well. I am going to have the mechanic take a look.
User avatar
Chromer
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:06 pm
First Name: Daryl
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: CGPDN
Airports: CYLW
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by Chromer »

Hi Todd, What was the outcome of your issue?
I had an issue today that had me return to the airport. I have a 2002 with slick start. Hard starting, took three tries. Run up was good, each mag drop was 110. Take off and climb was normal. When I got to 6500 ft. prop back to 2200 mixture 22.6. When I was bringing the mixture back to 8.2 at around 8.8 GPH the engine started to stumble. Back up to 9.2 and the engine stumble stopped. Checked all of the instruments, normal. Only issue that I have noticed this year was the engine takes longer to start. Both mags were rebuilt this year, less than 50 hrs. Any thoughts anyone. Thanks
User avatar
Toddf
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun May 19, 2019 2:28 pm
First Name: Todd
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N222GF
Airports: 79C
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by Toddf »

Hi Daryl,
The mechanic is hopefully going to inspect it this week. Mag checks have been good and nothing like you are experiencing in the air. On cold starts I let the prop rotate 2 twice and release and it always starts. Hot starts are a different problem. It takes me several attempts to hit it just right. I will post as soon as I get more info.
User avatar
Chromer
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:06 pm
First Name: Daryl
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: CGPDN
Airports: CYLW
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by Chromer »

Thanks, the starting problem sounds like mine but the stumbling is something that is new to me. The plugs were just done 6 flying hours ago but I'm going to pull the plugs and check them today.
User avatar
Chromer
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 43
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:06 pm
First Name: Daryl
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: CGPDN
Airports: CYLW
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Starting problems

Post by Chromer »

I thought the starting problem was fixed a month ago, but it reappeared a week later. I went over slickstart troubleshooting manual and did all of the tests that I could. Pulled the plugs, checked the timing, both were good. Continuity check on all of the wire check and cleaned all of the connections, including the grounds and the slickstart box. Engine fired up on first turn. Did one circuit to see how it would start hot. First turn again.
Today was 5 C outside with temps as low as -1 C. It’s been almost 1 weeks since the repairs. Oil temp was 27F. Engine fired up first turn. Not sure, but possibly a dirty connection was causing all of the issues. I’m hoping that this was the problem. Time will tell.
Post Reply