Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

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nathanda40
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Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by nathanda40 »

Thinking to switch to the Hartzell aluminum 2-blade prop. Will probably add the powerflow in the next year. Anybody done this and have performance figures? Or other thoughts?
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DaveS1900
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Re: Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by DaveS1900 »

Make sure you get the correct prop. Hartzell has a couple of options and one of them doesn't allow the powerfow
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nathanda40
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Re: Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by nathanda40 »

DaveS1900 wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:52 pm Make sure you get the correct prop. Hartzell has a couple of options and one of them doesn't allow the powerfow
Dave S.
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Thanks for the warning, I have been able to find the correct one for the STC. Curious peoples real world experiences with the Hartzell 2 blade vs MT.
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Re: Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by mhoran »

I have the Hartzell aluminum 2-blade prop and am happy with it. I've gotten some dings over the year and they're very easy to file down. I just had it dynamically balanced as well and that helped with some vibrations.

I have only flown with the MT a few times. During transition training, I was instructed and confirmed that when pulling back power on final with the MT prop, the plane really wants to get on the ground. I've felt this in the NG with the MT as well. I do not have this sensation with the Hartzell. Otherwise, climb and cruise performance has been fine. IIRC the MT has slightly better climb performance, and of course the aluminum prop is a good deal heavier and moves the CG forward. I haven't found this to be an issue, though. Very happy with the aluminum and no plans to swap it out.
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Rich
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Re: Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by Rich »

It's unclear which generation of DA40 you have, but the Aluminum prop is a total no-go for me. The 16-lb. additional weight is more than the sum of ALL the weight-adding mods I've made over the years (thankfully offset by weight-saving mods). My CG is well forward in the envelope (typical of the round-gauge models) and the heavier prop would make it significantly more so. Of course If you have one of the later models with the CG further aft then the shift forward might actually be helpful.

I don't see any downside to a prop adding drag at idle on approach. You do want to land and stop after all. Related to this, the engine idle setting has a significant effect on how much you float and how quickly you roll to a stop. Mine idles nicely at 650-700 RPM warm and when shut down from this RPM stops smoothly with no shuddering or other drama.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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Re: Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by dmloftus »

I rented several DA40's with the 2 blade Hartzell before I bought mine with the 3 blade MT. In my experience, I would never go to the 2 blade aluminum. The MT is SO much smoother, quieter, and performs marginally better. Also gives you better prop clearance in case of a hard landing. Yes it's a bit softer, possibly a bit higher maintenance cost, but it's a small price to pay for the benefits. Several other threads on this topic you might want to review.
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Re: Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by dant »

Why wouldn't you go for the composite 2 blade hartzell?
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Re: Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by CFIDave »

I'm pretty sure we've posted this Diamond document here on DAN before, but FYI here it is again -- comparing props for Lycoming DA40s:
2008-06-DA40props.pdf
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Re: Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by krellis »

dant wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:09 am Why wouldn't you go for the composite 2 blade hartzell?
Exactly. This is a superb prop. We had the 3 bladed MT on our first DA40 and despite the smaller diameter, we had more damage to it operating off our grass runway. The second DA40 with the two blade composite was much more tolerant of FOD. It has higher static thrust and excellent braking when in flat pitch.

I have a very similar Hartzell on our RV-7 and am installing the three bladed version (Cirrus prop) on our RV-10.

Support and service is better and more readily available on the Hartzell I believe.
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Re: Considering switch to Hartzell 2-Blade Prop from MT

Post by Rich »

CFIDave wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 3:18 pm I'm pretty sure we've posted this Diamond document here on DAN before, but FYI here it is again -- comparing props for Lycoming DA40s:
2008-06-DA40props.pdf
There is one thing missing from this document in the "I want to replace one with the other" scenario: Purchase price comparison. This is admittedly a dynamic factor, as over a period of years the price of all 3 has increased dramatically. The last time I looked the Hartzell composite was double the cost of the Aluminum. These days it's "call for quote".

There is a 4th propeller - the MT as originally shipped with the early DA40s, which I am still using. Slightly smaller in diameter (71 in). The RPM limit for this early prop has always been weird: Lycoming max continuous RPM - 2700. MT max continuous RPM - 2700. Prop + Lycoming max continuous RPM - 2400. We've always presumed it was EASA noise restrictions. I ignore the 2400 limitation, as do many of us. BTW the difference between 77.7 and 82.4 dB is not "slight", as dB are logarithmic values. A 4 dB increase indicates a sound pressure 2.5 times the lower number.
2002 DA40-180: MT, PowerFlow, 530W/430W, KAP140, ext. baggage, 1090 ES out, 2646 MTOW, 40gal., Surefly, Flightstream 210, Orion 600 LED, XeVision, Aspen E5
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