TDI upgrade to DA42-VI!

[Steve D]

I suspect you are correct. Originally Diamond tried to keep SVT from TDi owners. While it was a Garmin product, Diamond owned the operating interface software and so restricted access. Pressure, I presume from Garmin, eventually forced Diamond to relent. I am sure it was only coincidence that SVT became available just days after I posted on the other website about the legality of using a "pirate" version of SVT

If there is enough demand from TDi owners for upgrades from non-Diamond suppliers, then I am sure that they will become available.

Re the aerodynamic upgrades on the -VI, I was told that few were available for retrofit because of structural changes. The main areas of improvement as I recall were 1) the new hinge system on the nose baggage doors, 2) the engine nacelles and 3) the scimitar props. I presume you can get 2 & 3 if you convert to AE300 motors but 1) requires major surgery to the nose structure.

Lo Presti were originally working on more efficient nacelles for TDi motors but as nothing has been heard from them for years, I presume this was never completed.

Anybody know if MT scimitar props are available for retrofit to TDi motors?

[Antoine]

Anybody know if MT scimitar props are available for retrofit to TDi motors?

I was once at MT Straubing and saw a DA40 (yes 40) with a 2.0s engine (155 HP) and the MT scimitar prop.
So I know that there have been at least tests done. The test pilot was delighted with the performance but his claims were not credible so I'd rather not repeat them.

I suppose Centurion should have your answer.

[grusz]

Hi, I know John Crosby who tries to get certification of 2,0 S engines on his DA 42 and as next step planned to go through with scimitar prop. Current status is not known, as the plan was certification done in 2013 in summer. Till now it is not ready. You can contact john directly on John Crosby <crosbyjohnr@gmail.com>.

[grusz]

john crosby wrote to :
The final paperwork was submitted to the LBA/EASA on 25th October 2013.

Some minor questions came back from LBA in first week of January 2014.

These were all answered by email to them last Monday evening, 20th January.

I now, again, await the LBA reply which I expect to be positive with the issue, at last, of the Technical Visa (as a prelude to the EASA STC) thus enabling me to start productionising Retro-Fit Kits.

Included in the STC will be the options:-
1. of fitting the MT Scimitar bladed props and
2. an add on exhaust stub, if desired, in order to meet more stringent noise requirements

A full set of Vortex generators, MicroAero, to further enhance performance which already have an ( separate ) STC, FAA and EASA approved for Flight into Known Icing, are also an option.These have been temporally fitted to my DA42 2.0S, prototype for evaluation. They had to be later removed in order to continue the 2.0S STC flight test program .
When the STC is issued I shall be re-fitting them, but probably after the next aircraft ( a customer's ) has been 2.0S retrofitted, thus enabling customers to experience/evaluate these two options.

[Aart]

Thanks for sharing this John/Michal. Great work!

The obvious questions:

1. Performance figures, with and without scimitar props
2. Any changes in Mass and Balance?
3. Cost of basic kit and of scimitar props.

As to question 3, it is not clear to me if one needs a new 2.0S engine or if an existing 2.0 could be upgraded. If an upgrade is possible what does that entail? Software tweaking no doubt but hardware too, like the turbo? It is pretty obvious that the market for the retrofit kit would pick up so much quicker is existing 2.0 engines would be able to be upgraded..

[Bartek]

I agree with NickBudd that there is a great deal of Diamond "politics" involved in the process. It has been discussed on this forum many times. Hard to say how much there it is of business rationale for Diamond and how much emotions with roots of problems caused by Thielert insolvency.
Whatever the source is – it looks like very firm policy without any internal momentum for change, TDI owners have beed subject of some rather rude customer policy of Diamond.
But well, we will survive
Planes fly great, I think upgrades will eventually come. Once John Crosby succeeds with 2.0s upgrade – this is the first point where we may see the shift in Diamond’s policy towards “let’s do business on upgrades instead of securing market for Austros”. The 2.0s engines suite perfectly to the airframe, 20 hp per side without weight penalty is what the plane misses. Avionics and aerodynamics upgrades will not be enough to convince towards Austros, maybe we will see the shift towards “let’s make money on upgrades” at this point (if the current philosophy is not emotional in nature).
Second option are the upgrades coming from third parties – like Crosby again...
And the third – maybe former Diamond’s (now sold) maintenance facility in LOAN embraces this market. They should have all the necessary knowledge to win in this area.
Being optimist by nature I would dare to say that something will eventually change coming year or two…

[wolfvoador]

On the phone, Diamond Austria gave me a quote of EUR 260,000 for the TDI-to-VI upgrade, and said, there is no upgrade for my NG. Still want to see if I can't get a "Five-and-a -half" version for a reduced amount.... I need the few kts performance particularly to extend my range for 1000nm+ flights.

[wolfipilot]

The wording is pretty clear on the homepage, and the same applies for what we received as an information so far:

"The Upgrade to DA42-VI will contain:
Additional enhancements to the DA42 NG upgrade: Garmin GFC700, new propeller blades and all aerodynamical changes to the DA42-VI version."

I don't see that much space for dicussions with them on what is technically speaking possible as long as the wording is so clear. However, I will provide you with all the details in May this year, as promised.

[wolfipilot]

Here is the promised short feedback to our brand new DA42-vi conversion: we went to LOAN for the handover approx. 5 weeks ago, so in the meantime we took the opportunity for some nice VFR- and IFR flights.

The basis for our conversion was an ‘old’ Twinstar run by the 1.7 Thielert engines. The frame thus has had around 900hrs in total. With the conversion the -vi looks totally similar to the ‘regular’ -vi, so all the aerodynamical changes have been made, actually in our homebase hangar there is another ‘real’ -vi that looks fully similar. The wings are new, the tail is new, the nose is new (simply due to the fact that we have the weather radar installed), only thing that is NOT modified is the empty-weight-reduction, means we have an empty-weight of 1.450kg. MTOW is 1.900kg. However, it became pretty much clear the also 1.999kg is totally no problem since only the roll-over-bar is the critical point in that regard.

We fully meet the handbook values. For example we have: FL120, 75%, 13.2GAL7h, 170TAS.

Flying the -vi is more than excellent as many of you already know. The aircraft is IMHO very stable, the performance data is outstanding, the extras like the GWX shift in particular flying IFR into a new dimension (even though I have to admit that using the GWX is still something I have to get used to).

Unfortunately, according to my latest information, Diamond has more or less stopped the conversion by making the pricing model uninteresting, but I don’t have the exact figures.

[GLDAS]

There is a ton of labor involved in the TDi -> -VI conversion, though I don't remember the exact figure. So the cost of doing these conversions now, aggravated by the unavailability of the 1999 KG MTOW for converted airframes, just doesn't make sense for me now. You will wind up with an airframe carrying a 2006 or 2007 serial number and lower MTOW versus new production which costs <$150,000 more, has warranty, and is a 2015 serial number. The numbers just don't work.

What we are doing is 2.0 conversions now. The 2.0 is a good, reliable, well-supported product. A <$400,000 2.0 with new engines, props, and warranty on both is a solid airplane. Yes, it is slower than the -VI and lacks GFC700/WAAS. So let's say it's 80% of a -VI at well less than half the price. There is value there and a much larger pool of potential buyers.
-dan