DA42 v Baron

Any DA42 related topics.

Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray

Post Reply
User avatar
psk
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:37 pm
First Name: patrick
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N690PK
Airports: LFMD EGTF
Has thanked: 9 times

DA42 v Baron

Post by psk »

Have been working on my multi rating recently in a DA42 and am really enjoying it. Have been considering various aircraft and doing tons of research, as I did prior to buying a DA40 as my first plane... sometimes the shopping is almost as much fun as the flying. I'm wondering what others who have other twin experience think of the pros and cons of the DA42 versus a Beechcraft Baron 58?
I'd like something with reasonable weather capability, decent ability to cross the Rockies, and a stable IFR platform. After a long time considering a TN beech G36 or A36 as the obvious next plane, in the step toward a turboprop, I've decided I'd like a twin, rather than a single.
The mission is short and long cross countries, primarily just me, occasionally a passenger or two, but honestly my wife would rather fly the airlines with the kids than be in a small plane. I fly because I love it not because it makes economic sense and if the weather is horrible I will stay on the ground or take a commercial flight. I'm considering circa 2000+ pre g58 vintage baron versus 2007+ DA42 with 2.0 engines.


There is a crazy part of my brain that says Aerostar, though...

Not outsourcing my decision making, just wondering what others experiences have been and what you think.
User avatar
ihfanjv
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:00 pm
First Name: None
Aircraft Type: DA40
Airports:
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: DA42 v Baron

Post by ihfanjv »

Is this a serious question? You are in the DA42 message board asking if something better than a Diamond. What's your next trick, walking into a Coca Cola factory and asking the factory workers "who here likes Pepsi Max over Coke?"

The mission you describe seems best suited for a 2.0 or Austro DA42 FIKI or the SR22 Turbo FIKI. Based upon your passenger count the Baron doesn't seem to offer any advantage over the DA42 or the SR22 Turbo, unless you like burrning 2-3 times the fuel and like last-generation panels.. The blessing and curse of Diamond is the center stick. The center stick makes it the pilot's airplane. But, for non-pilot right seaters (generally) and for long cross countries for both front seats I find the center stick to be undesirable.

I fly Pipers, Diamonds, Cesssnas and Cirrus on a rotating basis. The more I fly these the more I prefer the SR22.
User avatar
psk
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:37 pm
First Name: patrick
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N690PK
Airports: LFMD EGTF
Has thanked: 9 times

Re: DA42 v Baron

Post by psk »

Yes it's a serious question.
I considered all the options with my first plane and bought a Diamond, I am now doing the same with my second.
I didn't consider this to be a fanboy website, supposed most of us owners have made choices and considered other manufacturers, so I am interested in the thought process.
Certainly surprised you are somehow insulted or threatened by my asking a thoughtful question, didn't realize we weren't allowed to consider other aircraft manufacturers. Even more confused upon your stating that you prefer the SR22... Seems like you might be having the Pepsi issues.
I've posted something similar on beechtalk
User avatar
trepine
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:36 pm
First Name: Gilman
Aircraft Type: DA40
Aircraft Registration: N820AM
Airports: KSDL
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: DA42 v Baron

Post by trepine »

I've been thinking about my transition from my DA40, probably 2-3 years from now. The things I have considered are SR22T for speed, altitude, and high useful load. And the DA42 because I like diamond more than cirrus, better safety based on my personal assessment, twin to cross water on occasion and rockies relatively regularly, and logical transition from the 40 (at least to me).

I like composite planes, and have no interest in the aluminum variant. I like the design and efficiency they enable. I'm pretty scizto about which I like which day, I go back and forth.
Antoine
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2043
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:00 pm
First Name: Antoine
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N121AG
Airports: LSGG
Has thanked: 87 times
Been thanked: 220 times

Re: DA42 v Baron

Post by Antoine »

Patrick,
I am not competent to answer your question but please be assured that we are a friendly and open group. you'll find here many discussions about what is best for which mission, including lots of open and justified Diamond criticism.
As you say - shopping around is a fun process so please talk to us :)
No fanboys here - from what I could experience so far this is a mature group with a great ability to objectively assess facts. The DA42 forum will give you lots of info about real world experience with this fine airplane including its downsides too. For example: I would encourage you to ask DA-42 owners if they would buy again THIS specific plane they already bought...
Since I am also looking at an upgrade, I'd like to know what made you prefer the "twin piston " way versus the "single turboprop?" A friend of mine just gave me lots of data about owning a Piper JetProp DLX and I must admit it is an impressive machine.
User avatar
ihfanjv
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:00 pm
First Name: None
Aircraft Type: DA40
Airports:
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: DA42 v Baron

Post by ihfanjv »

psk wrote:Yes it's a serious question...Certainly surprised you are somehow insulted or threatened by my asking a thoughtful question, didn't realize we weren't allowed to consider other aircraft manufacturers...
No insult intended, I was just joking and was pulling your chain. It worked!

You asked a good question and I think you will get good answers here.

Arrange a flight in a 2008+ SR22TN or SR22T. I think you will be impressed. Cirrus is one of the only manufacturers that is innovating every day in the single engine piston space, and I think they are doing a great job. Be warned though, these airplanes are like snowflakes, built by hand one at a time, and it appears that the Cirrus can suffer "built on a Friday" syndrome. Some SR airframes operate smoothly with very few squawks, where other seem to be total lemons. But, that might also be attributed to operator error or some combination of "built on a Friday" and operator error.

Diamond makes a great product, but their support and follow through appear to be lacking. I like both the DA42 and the SR22. But, even comparing the DA42-V1 to the SR22T G5, in my opinion the SR22TG5 wins. More useful load, no center stick, more speed, and more inviting cabin to non-pilots (even though you have to climb in the back folding the front seat forward in the Cirrus). But, it's a close call, even though the DA42-V1 is hundreds of thousands more expensive. But, if you have to have a twin (because you just need that first engine to fail, and need that second engine to take you to the scene of the accident) then the DA42 is an excellent choice especially for non-professional pilot because it is just so easy and fun to fly. Accident statistics don't lie. The DA40 and DA42 are probably the safest airplanes ever made.

You have nothing but good choices. Good luck on your search.
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 1473 times

Re: DA42 v Baron

Post by CFIDave »

Patrick:

I have experience piloting a BE58 Baron (2000 model), since one of my friends has let me fly his Baron multiple times. I've also ridden in it on long x-country flights as a passenger. We've flown photo formation flights together (his Baron, my DA42-VI).

Here's how they compare:
- With nearly twice the horsepower, the Baron accelerates better down the runway.
- However when flying in formation, we surprisingly discovered that the DA42-VI will actually out-climb a Baron, :-D likely due to the turbocharged DA42 engines and more efficient wing.
- The Baron typically consumes 3X the fuel of the DA42. :thumbsd:
- Cruise airspeeds aren't much different, the DA42-VI is faster at higher altitudes; the Baron is faster down low.
- Although slightly narrower than the DA42, the Baron's cabin is much more comfortable with seating for 6.
- The Baron feels much heavier in control, but is also a bit more stable in turbulence (it weighs more than 5000 lbs.). The Baron feels like a heavy powerful "beast," whereas the DA42 feels more like a sports car in comparison.
- All DA42s have G1000s, whereas only newer G58 Barons have the G1000.

If you were routinely trying to haul a family or 4+ passengers around, the Baron would be a fine choice. However the DA42 perhaps better fits the mission you describe. Ours directly crossed the Rockies at 17000 feet very nicely.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
User avatar
CFIDave
5 Diamonds Member
5 Diamonds Member
Posts: 2678
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
First Name: Dave
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N333GX
Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
Has thanked: 231 times
Been thanked: 1473 times

Re: DA42 v Baron

Post by CFIDave »

ihfanjv wrote:But, even comparing the DA42-V1 to the SR22T G5, in my opinion the SR22TG5 wins. More useful load, no center stick, more speed, and more inviting cabin to non-pilots (even though you have to climb in the back folding the front seat forward in the Cirrus). But, it's a close call, even though the DA42-V1 is hundreds of thousands more expensive.
I went through the comparison you describe. Before buying our new DA42-VI I seriously considered the Cirrus (and Cessna TTx), flying them all.

What I learned is that when comparably equipped with all the same options, a new DA42 costs about $100,000 more -- a price I was willing to pay for the security and piece of mind of flying a twin. There's no way I would have felt comfortable crossing the cold north Atlantic via Iceland and Greenland flying a single-engine Cirrus with a parachute.

The DA42-VI useful load is now comparable to the SR22T G5 with Diamond's recent 100 kg/220 lb weight increase.

As for performance, a DA42-VI will easily out-climb a Cirrus, and at altitudes below its maximum certified altitude of 18,000 feet, a DA42-VI is equally fast with less fuel burn. To go faster than a DA42-VI in a Cirrus requires cruising above 18,000 feet where you must wear an uncomfortable mask instead of a cannula, brave the cold, and run a much greater risk of rapid-onset hypoxia if your O2 system fails. For these reasons, very few Cirrus Turbo owners I know ever cruise at 25,000 feet; instead they fly in the teens where performance is similar to a DA42-VI.

And you left out the huge advantage of flying with FADEC-controlled diesel engines: just turn the key to start -- no hot starts, no need to pre-heat in the winter, no shock cooling worry when ATC gives you a slam-dunk approach, no need to play with the mixture for LOP vs. ROP operation, typical $1/gallon cheaper JetA fuel in North America, extended oil change intervals, etc.

(now back to the original topic of DA42 vs. Baron...)
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
User avatar
ihfanjv
3 Diamonds Member
3 Diamonds Member
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 8:00 pm
First Name: None
Aircraft Type: DA40
Airports:
Been thanked: 7 times

Re: DA42 v Baron

Post by ihfanjv »

CFIDave,

That was a great post.

I would agree that I would not cross the North Atlantic in a single.

What altitude will the DA42-V1 hold with engine out at or near max gross? My recollection is that the single engine performance of the pre-V1 DA42 is not a get out of jail free card for mountain range crossing.

The Baron is a great plane. I would not hesitate to buy either the Baron, SR, or DA42 if the particular plane fulfilled my particular 95% of the time mission. They are different planes with different missions.
Last edited by ihfanjv on Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
psk
2 Diamonds Member
2 Diamonds Member
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:37 pm
First Name: patrick
Aircraft Type: OTHER
Aircraft Registration: N690PK
Airports: LFMD EGTF
Has thanked: 9 times

Re: DA42 v Baron

Post by psk »

Thanks, I think the Cirrus v DA42 comparison is useful.
My specific choices mentioned are both sub $400,000 planes, so similar acquisition prices. I have not been considering the turboed Cirrus, although it sounds like I should be. The jetprop is out due to the higher cost, as is a DA42 VI.
As an aside, if I were spending something approaching most of $1 million or more, I would be thinking pressurization and turbine rather than no pressurization and piston engine(s). I am wary of turbine costs, with the understanding that you need to expect pricing to be some multiple of piston costs. I may be ready for this down the line but I'd like ease my way into this. I'm not ready as a pilot for these planes, in an honest self assessment. I think my "ultimate" plane is likely a TBM, maybe PC-12, maybe King Air, but that is a couple years off for me.
I did my primary flight training in Cessnas and Pipers and I have a negative perception of Piper build quality. I do think that Diamonds are well made and have a positive view of the build quality and the flying feel of the Diamonds, from a pilot's perspective (not so much for passengers with the low wing loading in the DA40 in less than stable air).
I don't have much love for Diamond customer support, having missed out on flying my DA40 during the summer of 2013 while my annual in the UK dragged out for several months, as the shop was unable to get parts from Diamond Austria. I've heard much better reports of Cessna, Piper, Cirrus. Have people had similar experiences in the U.S. or are there parts in inventory at the U.S. system?
As Antoine suggests, maybe from this forum the best question I can ask is of the DA42 owners. I think it goes something like "For owners of the 2.0 engined DA42, as they are today, would you buy this plane again, at the current market prices? What are your reasons?" I'm aware of the past issues around the 1.7 engines and aware of the depreciation, so not asking about buying the plane as it was introduced or about buying a new plane from Diamond (I could afford that initial depreciation but I just can't stomach it as a numbers guy, which has me buying a few years old on aircraft and cars).

Ihfanjv, my ear was tone deaf to your kidding around. My sense of humor seems to have been malfunctioning last night...
Post Reply