Leaseback experiences?

[Colin]

I don't know what it would be like in a club or leaseback, but my insurance on the DA42 is under $5k a year. $450k hull value.

[RMarkSampson]

DA-20 in a leaseback to a flying club w/10 members, 80K hull value is 4K. Basically that is the commercial rate for a DA-20 with ~3000 hours on it. Many members in my club are high-time military pilots but we have a couple student pilots - and they always insure to the lowest common denominator. For a DA-42, you won’t have primary training for a PPL but you will likely see brand new PPLs working on their multi engine. I might be wrong but I would imagine a 5k personal policy would equate to closer to 15-20K in a commercial or club policy. Only an underwriter can say but that is one data point to get if someone is considering a leaseback of a DA-42. For my DA-20 the club pays the insurance bill so the 4K is essentially split 10 ways, about $400 per person per year - to fly one plane. Renters insurance is usually about the same but planes you rent will already have insurance. Renters insurance only supplements that coverage.

I call it the bull in the china shop because it is a difficult thing to make fiscally viable in a business model...

[jb642DA]

The yearly insurance premium for our 2007 DA42TDi was $8850. That included flight school use and "qualified" pilot rental. (Hull value $350,000, 1M liability with 100k per person). The policy also allowed "leaseback" use.

This rate was the lowest I could find and was through the flight school's "fleet policy". If the policy was for just me flying it, the premium would have been approx $3500-4000/year.

So, basically the insurance "cost" for it to be available to "others" was $4850-5350/year! Consider that additional insurance cost when figuring your hourly lease back rate!! (at 200 hours/year, that adds $24.50-26.75/hour to your costs, at 100/year its $48.50-53.50/hour!!)

[Daneshgari]

Hi All:

On a related topic. Would anyone know if we can post our airplane for sale on this forum or any other classified ads. My TBM forum allows us to do that.

Thanks

[Chris]

On a related topic. Would anyone know if we can post our airplane for sale on this forum or any other classified ads.

Only for 3-diamond members and above in the Classifieds forum, and only for non-commercial use as described here.

Also, this is not a "a related topic" to Leaseback experiences. Please take any further discussion regarding the listing of items for sale to the Site Feedback forum.

[Daneshgari]

Thanks Chris. That helps.

[Don]

Just my thoughts on leaseback. I use to have a Katana A1 and a C-172 on leaseback with a local flight school. The C-172 had a brand new interior when I put it out on the line. I was very disappointed with how the renters and instructors treated the planes. I was constantly cleaning out used food packages and used drink containers. The C-172's new interior had ballpoint pen marks all over the leather seats in less than six months from being on the line. I finally sold both planes and was very relieved after the sell. I found the old sayin, "Nothing parties like a rental" to be true in my case.

[SDR]

The financials may work out, but my advice is to work with a reputable school and monitor the use closely. Be involved in your business. I placed my brand new DA40 with a school with the written agreement that it would not be used for primary instruction. A freshly minted CFI used the plane for a new student, resulting in a stall above the runway, requiring a new prop, engine inspection, and new landing gear (~$30,000 damage). The school also then went out of business stiffing creditors across the airport.

[Don]

The financials may work out, but my advice is to work with a reputable school and monitor the use closely. Be involved in your business. I placed my brand new DA40 with a school with the written agreement that it would not be used for primary instruction. A freshly minted CFI used the plane for a new student, resulting in a stall above the runway, requiring a new prop, engine inspection, and new landing gear (~$30,000 damage). The school also then went out of business stiffing creditors across the airport.

Ouch! Sorry for your misfortune. That said, I hope the $30K damage was covered by insurance.

[Daneshgari]

One thing hat helped me in my lease back to Mooney was that it was the factory. With this years depreciation laws it may make sense to use the full write off an ddon't worry about the damages.

Perry