Again ECU failure
Moderators: Rick, Lance Murray
- Rmateu
- 2 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:50 pm
- First Name: Roberto
- Aircraft Type: DA42-VI
- Aircraft Registration: YV3313
- Airports: SVCS
- Been thanked: 6 times
Again ECU failure
For a second time I am having problem with a Failure ECU on the airplane. The problem is that the failure does not follows any logical pattern. Taking off the left engine report a A and B ECU failure, I continue the flight and follow the Manual procedure, opening the alternate air, and tried to reset the failure by pressing the ECU test for more than 2 seconds, but the error continue. I then checked manually ECU A and B and could feel the changes on the engine normally, However 20 minutes later both error messages disappeared.
On the return Flight, all test on the ground were OK, full power for 10s gave me 100% on both engine and I proceed with the flight. However, leveling at 12500´ I got a R ECU B Fail, but minutes later a R FUEL PRESS. Again following the manual, as soon I put the fuel pump on, the R the fuel press warning went off and minutes later after turning off the fuel pump the warning did not return.
One situation that puzzle me is, what are the possibility of first, a double ECU failure?, second, a failure on the other engine but not on the same failure on the first one?.
Before this flight I had similar incident, and checking with the Diamond representatives they could not find any errors on the ECU log, however, downloading the data and using diamond software we could see when the error occurred. At this time by Diamond suggestion, the shop upgrade the ECUS software and did a check on condition of the sensors and connector. A flight afterwards everything was in order.
My big problem is that most of my flights are through the Caribbean and Central America, and are over water, and flighting 2 or 3 hours over water with a ECU warning is nerve reckoning.
As information my plane is a DA42 NG VI with Austro engines and only 155 total hours
On the return Flight, all test on the ground were OK, full power for 10s gave me 100% on both engine and I proceed with the flight. However, leveling at 12500´ I got a R ECU B Fail, but minutes later a R FUEL PRESS. Again following the manual, as soon I put the fuel pump on, the R the fuel press warning went off and minutes later after turning off the fuel pump the warning did not return.
One situation that puzzle me is, what are the possibility of first, a double ECU failure?, second, a failure on the other engine but not on the same failure on the first one?.
Before this flight I had similar incident, and checking with the Diamond representatives they could not find any errors on the ECU log, however, downloading the data and using diamond software we could see when the error occurred. At this time by Diamond suggestion, the shop upgrade the ECUS software and did a check on condition of the sensors and connector. A flight afterwards everything was in order.
My big problem is that most of my flights are through the Caribbean and Central America, and are over water, and flighting 2 or 3 hours over water with a ECU warning is nerve reckoning.
As information my plane is a DA42 NG VI with Austro engines and only 155 total hours
- pietromarx
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 433
- Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:52 am
- First Name: Peter
- Aircraft Type: DA40
- Aircraft Registration: NZZZ
- Airports: KWHP
- Has thanked: 29 times
- Been thanked: 157 times
Re: Again ECU failure
That sounds like a classic loose connector, probably on the engine / airframe unit of the G1000 (speaking without authority). It can only be at points where they both come together.
- dgger
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 218
- Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2016 11:00 pm
- First Name: Peter
- Aircraft Type: DA62
- Aircraft Registration: OEFGM
- Airports: EDLN
- Has thanked: 21 times
- Been thanked: 39 times
Re: Again ECU failure
Double ECU failures are not that uncommon, given that the ECUs share a number of sensors. Should the sensor - or just the connector - fail you would get them.
I would be vary travelling with ECU failures unless I absolutely know, what caused them. They can range from benign to catastrophic. I would do another read out and make sure to get to the bottom of this.
I would be vary travelling with ECU failures unless I absolutely know, what caused them. They can range from benign to catastrophic. I would do another read out and make sure to get to the bottom of this.
- CFIDave
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2682
- Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 3:40 pm
- First Name: Dave
- Aircraft Type: OTHER
- Aircraft Registration: N333GX
- Airports: KJYO Leesburg VA
- Has thanked: 234 times
- Been thanked: 1480 times
Re: Again ECU failure
One of the most misleading annunciations on Thielert/Austro engines is "ECU FAIL." You can almost always assume that this is NOT what happened!
Instead, all it takes to generate an ECU FAIL message is for one of the engine's many sensors to provide an input to the ECU that is no longer within the sensor's normal range of values. If a single sensor is shared by both ECUs, then you'll receive a dual ECU failure indication.
Depending upon the particular sensor that's generating an abnormal value, the ECUs will continue to operate, but the software will then automatically revert to a fixed value for that sensor. The engine will continue to operate, but not at optimal performance. This is analogous to receiving a "check engine" light on your car, where the car is still drivable but the engine may not be able to produce full power until the sensor is replaced (most likely), or the source of the out-of-range value is addressed.
If the out-of-range sensor value was a transient occurrence that went away, it's then possible to clear the ECU FAIL message and continue flying normally.
A bad fuel pressure sensor can trigger failures of both ECU A and ECU B, since it's shared by both ECUs. I had this happen earlier this year when flying a new DA40 NG. Resetting the ECUs only made the annunciations go away temporarily, and turning on the engine's electric backup Fuel Pump switch didn't make the the errors go away either. I would suggest replacing the fuel pressure sensor on that engine.
Instead, all it takes to generate an ECU FAIL message is for one of the engine's many sensors to provide an input to the ECU that is no longer within the sensor's normal range of values. If a single sensor is shared by both ECUs, then you'll receive a dual ECU failure indication.
Depending upon the particular sensor that's generating an abnormal value, the ECUs will continue to operate, but the software will then automatically revert to a fixed value for that sensor. The engine will continue to operate, but not at optimal performance. This is analogous to receiving a "check engine" light on your car, where the car is still drivable but the engine may not be able to produce full power until the sensor is replaced (most likely), or the source of the out-of-range value is addressed.
If the out-of-range sensor value was a transient occurrence that went away, it's then possible to clear the ECU FAIL message and continue flying normally.
A bad fuel pressure sensor can trigger failures of both ECU A and ECU B, since it's shared by both ECUs. I had this happen earlier this year when flying a new DA40 NG. Resetting the ECUs only made the annunciations go away temporarily, and turning on the engine's electric backup Fuel Pump switch didn't make the the errors go away either. I would suggest replacing the fuel pressure sensor on that engine.
Epic Aircraft E1000 GX
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
Former DA40XLS, DA42-VI, and DA62 owner
ATP, CFI, CFI-I, MEI
- Rmateu
- 2 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:50 pm
- First Name: Roberto
- Aircraft Type: DA42-VI
- Aircraft Registration: YV3313
- Airports: SVCS
- Been thanked: 6 times
Re: Again ECU failure
Update, the Data from Austria came yesterday. in Summary, LH a boost pressure failure and the RH a fuel pressure failure. On both engines Austria recommend several items to check, perhaps the LH is due to the recent waste gate control rod bulleting, that was not properly adjusted. The RH failure is a little more worrisome, since involves checking filters, valves, pumps and sensors. and this items are rather binary they work or they do not. Today I will discus with the shop what would be the troubleshooting procedures on this items. I keep you all posted
- neema
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:43 am
- First Name: Neema
- Aircraft Type: DA62
- Aircraft Registration: N617DC
- Airports: KFAT
- Has thanked: 43 times
- Been thanked: 107 times
Re: Again ECU failure
We had our wastegate actuators changed after the AD and that create ECU failure problems for us. The original wastegates worked great!
Despite the replacement wastegate actuators being adjusted correctly, engine power was too slow to come up relative to commanded power. I could cowboy the plane into not throwing codes (very slowly advance throttle), but even doing that caused a partial power scenario 10 minutes into flight where. I turned back and had new wastegates put on and adjusted. Even then, we still have a RH engine that's slow to come up to power and will throw a code if we advance throttle levers too quickly. I've dealt with it for 80 hours. Will have it changed again to make it right when we go in for annual.
Hope your RH fuel pressure issue is a simple fix
Despite the replacement wastegate actuators being adjusted correctly, engine power was too slow to come up relative to commanded power. I could cowboy the plane into not throwing codes (very slowly advance throttle), but even doing that caused a partial power scenario 10 minutes into flight where. I turned back and had new wastegates put on and adjusted. Even then, we still have a RH engine that's slow to come up to power and will throw a code if we advance throttle levers too quickly. I've dealt with it for 80 hours. Will have it changed again to make it right when we go in for annual.
Hope your RH fuel pressure issue is a simple fix
- Colin
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
- First Name: Colin
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N972RD
- Airports: KFHR
- Has thanked: 319 times
- Been thanked: 527 times
Re: Again ECU failure
What's the time on your high pressure fuel pump on the RH?
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
- Colin
- 5 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 2006
- Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:37 pm
- First Name: Colin
- Aircraft Type: DA42
- Aircraft Registration: N972RD
- Airports: KFHR
- Has thanked: 319 times
- Been thanked: 527 times
Re: Again ECU failure
Neema, what shop does your DA42 work?
Colin Summers, PP Multi-Engine IFR, ~3,000hrs
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
colin@mightycheese.com * send email rather than PM
http://www.flyingsummers.com
N972RD DA42 G1000 2.0 s/n 42.AC100 (sold!)
N971RD DA40 G1000 s/n 40.508 (traded)
- neema
- 4 Diamonds Member
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:43 am
- First Name: Neema
- Aircraft Type: DA62
- Aircraft Registration: N617DC
- Airports: KFAT
- Has thanked: 43 times
- Been thanked: 107 times
Re: Again ECU failure
Colin wrote:Neema, what shop does your DA42 work?
For that particular job (wastegate AD), Absolute Aero at HWD. We go back and forth between them and MX Aero at LGB.
Both service Angel City/Bay City Flyers fleet, so they're pretty fluent in Diamonds--we still catch plenty of little mistakes though.